32 Battalion

32 Battalion

shirt



jacket

[url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?
i=103&u=16277572][/url]

taylor made, or over dyed

Nice set !

COOOOOOOOOOOOOL! I love SA stuff

I haven't seen that last set colouring before - at least not attributed to 32 Bn. Might this be a SA Recce pattern instead?

http://www.32battalion.net/

http://www.32battalion.net/32%20Battalion%20Equipment.htm

Ahh ... it all makes sense now. Never too old to learn something new ... Thanks for the links!

Howdy Gents,

Those last few uniform items are indeed Recce 1st pattern camouflage. There is quite a bit of confusion surrounding this pattern, which isn’t helped by some incorrect information on the 32 Bn Veterans website. Let me explain.

Several years ago I had a conversation with Jeff Fannell (co-author of Osprey Elite Series #47: South African Special Forces) in regards to this pattern. It came to light that there is a misprint in the book where it attributes this pattern to the 32 Bn Recce Wing. Jeff found this enlightening, as he had been wondering why everyone was calling this “Recce Wing camo”. This is in fact, incorrect. Jeff has since added a correction to his webpage. Please see the bottom of this link:

http://members.fortunecity.com/swatshop/updates.htm

It states: LINE 6 SHOULD READ "Although not much issued in 32bn after 1976 this pattern was adopted by SA SPECIAL FORCES (The Recces) and new stock was produced using a poly/cotton blend material........."

There also exists photographic documentation showing this pattern in use with the Recces prior to the formation of 32 Bn. Now, did the 32 Bn Recce Wing use this pattern? Sure. Just as 31 Bn Recce Wing used it, and SWA Recce, and any other unit trained by and operating with the Recces. The fact is, this is not a 32 Bn only issued uniform, and actually predates the unit.

Be aware as well, that there are two versions of this pattern. The original 1970's produced pattern (of which Gilles’ garments are examples), and the 1980's produced “copy” pattern. The patterns themselves are very similar, but not exactly the same, and the colors of the 80's version are a bit darker. Now, the Recce 1st pattern was the inspiration for the 32 Bn camouflage patterns, and the later Recce copy version is the exact pattern as the wet and dry season 32 Bn camo.

Here’s an example of an original 1970's produced Recce 1st pattern jacket:



And here’s an example of the 1980's Recce 1st pattern copy pattern. Note this is exactly the same camo pattern as 32 Bn uniforms, although the pattern orientation is usually reversed on the Recce uniforms.



Finally, here’s a comparison shot of the 70's and 80's material. Note the pattern is orientated differently on the uniforms, the color differences, and some of the differences in the shapes as well.



I'd like to add, that 32 Bn Veterans website is very good, and has a ton of great information and photos. However, many of the pages haven't been updated in a few years, and quite a bit of information has come to light since, so there is some incorrect information there.

Anyway, I hope this will help clear up the confusion in regards to this pattern.

Cheers!

Mike

Sweet... I have Recce 1st Pattern and both types of 32 Bn. Always good to know what I have

I had never noticed the different orientation of the Recce patterns vs. 32 Bn. It's such a "busy" pattern I didn't really give it a second glance. I can totally see it now.

Thanks guys!

Steve

To make things even more interesting, had a friend ex-rhodie in 4th recce in the early 80s. He got me several sets of the 80s produced camo as pictured above, in addition he also got me a boatload of the east german rain camo ostensibly used in pseudo operations. they also had rain camo berets and field caps.
At the time had no idea what i had, didn't learn til many years later.

Chris

Hey Chris,

As you know, if you still had that pile of camo, you'd be sitting on a gold mine. I have several pieces of the South African produced rain pattern camo, as well as a whole whack of other copy patterns. It's pretty neat stuff, and worthy of it's own thread one of these days.

To add to the 32 Bn camo items, here's examples of both the dry and wet season Kico caps. For those who are not aware, 32 Bn was mostly made up of Angolan ex-FNLA cadre, hence the Portuguese influence with the headgear.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,
That'd be an interesting thread, I think besides the rain pattern I had some form or other of lizard pattern as well.

Chris

http://www.32battalion.net/32%20Battalion%20Equipment.htm

Hello Mike
On this website, they say that the DPM Recce pattern was build specilally for the 32Bn Recce group
What are thinking about that?
Gilles

zvez wrote:Mike,
That'd be an interesting thread, I think besides the rain pattern I had some form or other of lizard pattern as well.

I'll have to get on that. I worked with a couple other collectors on an extensive thread about this subject over on the Rhodesian Forum. Give me a few days to get to it.

vonstuck wrote:
Hello Mike
On this website, they say that the DPM Recce pattern was build specilally for the 32Bn Recce group
What are thinking about that?

Hi Gilles,

I don't agree with that assessment one bit. The Recce "bright" DPM items were SA Special Forces issue, just as with all the copy camo uniforms. Again, as with the Recce 1st pattern uniforms, many of these Recce issue uniforms would have found use with other specialist units. I've seen photos of both 32 Bn and 31 Bn Recce Wings wearing copy camo uniforms. Add to that, a portion of my copy camo collection came from Piet Nortje, ex-RSM of 32 Bn, and a former Recce Wing member. One of the items just happened to be one of those DPM jackets.

While I'm at it, I might as well point out another mistake on that webpage. They state that the wet and dry season uniforms were issued since 1976. This is incorrect. Piet Nortje states in his book that the commanders of 32 Bn didn't negotiate the creation of a unit-only pattern until late 1979. As such, the uniforms wouldn't have been issued out until 1980 or '81. Photo documentation supports this, as the earliest photo of these uniforms in use that I can find is from 1981. This also coincides with the creation of the Recce copy camo uniform program around '81-'82. Many of the copy camo items have the exact same style and cut as the 32 Bn uniforms, and we've already covered that the Recce 1st pattern copy and the 32 Bn camo patterns are the same. The Recce copy camo items were produced by ARMSCOR, and I suspect that the 32 Bn camo items were as well. All of these items were sterile, lacking manufacturer tags, and only having small size labels or stamps.

OK, so as not to bore the membership here with dry details, I'll add some eye-candy. Here's an example of the 32 Bn pullover, or sweater. This one has wet season camo elbow pads, but they were made with dry season camo too.

Cheers,

Mike

as usual mike you are our "bible" to SA stuff...

Maybe this might be the wrong place to add this uniform, but i got this set about an year ago from a very reliable source.
Supposedly the uniform came from a former soldier of SA, but i have no evidence of it's actual use...

Has anyone ever seeing, or have pics of DPM uniforms being worn in SA?

Here is my uniform.

Hi Danilo,

Oh, I wouldn't go so far as to say a bible of information. You give me too much credit.

That DPM uniform is a Recce issued item for training. I had heard the rumor before that these were Recce issue, and I finally found a photo of it in use in a newly published book on the Recces. It's a post '94 uniform, most likely only from the last decade. I'm quite sure it's Chinese contract, especially going by the labels. That, and it is cut like no other Recce or SANDF uniform.

Oh, and yes this is the wrong place to add that uniform. Just kidding!

Cheers,

Mike

i know it was misplaced, my original info did state it was issued to recce, but i couldn't confirm that.

As for a lot of credit, you always pulls up this great pics, uniforms and information about SA so you deserve it, we need to appreciate all the help you give us!

thanks again for your help and the info i got was the set was made in S korea, but he wasn't sure.

cheers

rare in usage photo...

beautiful set up...