Unknown Camo Pattern

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    MyZone
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    Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by MyZone on Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:09 am

    Recent find in the Ft. Bragg area.

    Thanks In Advance,
    MZ♠








    Haydamaka
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    Re: Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by Haydamaka on Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:25 am

    I'd suppose this is commercial stuff.
    Absence of ID labels and not US military buttons prove this...

    MyZone
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    Re: Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by MyZone on Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:15 am

    Hello,

    I tend to lean away from the assertion that it commercial based on the lack of tags. Also, the lack of US buttons is also not any indication of validity. I trust there are countless examples of authentic uniforms from various countries / sources that lack both.

    It is most likely a soldier "bring-back" from somewhere else down-range; it has managed to find its way onto the local surplus market around Ft. Bragg. I can personally attest that is is a robust market at that.

    Appreciate the input; I will keep searching for it's true identity.....

    MZ♠

    Haydamaka
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    Re: Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by Haydamaka on Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:21 am

    No doubt, anybody wants to purchase real original combat stuff.
    But let's consider the jacket quietly and in details. I tried to find something of the period to match.
    Please check out this - there are a lot of US military tropical jackets with short descriptions.

    https://www.vintagetrends.com/military/thumbnails.asp?mode=all&MC=Military+Vintage&CA=Men&SC=Jackets%2FCoats&ST=Jungle+jacket&SS=

    Ft. Bragg is a cool and respected place, but, frankly speaking, this is not any guarantee that the local market provides only original and real combat stuff.

    There are also some other peculiarities of your jacket.
    A small black tag with "L"(?) letter also looks like something from civilian market.
    If the jacket misses the military ID tag, there should be even a place and signs of the removed tag. There is no US military stuff without any ID and/or care info, inscriptions of compliance with some regulations, size, contract number, manufacturer info etc...

    A peculiar is the camouflage, please mind the sleeves. There is something like a variant of ERDL-based "woodland" camouflage, but with some similarity to Belgian "jigsaw" camouflage, which is characterized with thin white "shadow" in the pattern.
    The Belgians got rid of this feature only in the last version of national camouflage:""A fourth variation of the national jigsaw camouflage pattern first appeared in around 2005, and has since been replacing the previous incarnations as supplies are cycled out of the distribution system. The pattern has only been modified from the last version by the omission of the tiny bits of "white" that had traditionally appeared in the design. These no longer remain".

    http://camopedia.org/index.php?title=Belgium

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:11 am

    Yea, these are tough ones to ID. Some of the stuff that floats around places like Ft. Bragg are commercial pieces that got mixed into military use somewhere or were picked up in a local market far away. With some provenance they may be very interesting, but lacking any puts the burden of proof that it's "interesting" on the person who has it.

    The size tag is something I've seen on Georgian and Ukrainian items. I'm sure others as well. The double exposed buttons is USUALLY a sign of cheap commercial production because the normal hidden BDU pocket flaps are so more expensive to make than exposed button.

    To me the "shadow" is a printing error, not something done on purpose. This is consistent with a cheap commercial product. Very often enterprising people make use of cheap rejected cloth to crank out some quick profits.

    Syria and Iraq use uniforms with two button pockets, but the Syrian style is distinct and only with chest pockets. So that's right out IMHO. Iraqi uniform variants are pretty widely studied and I don't know of anything that this conforms to, so I'd tend to say it's not in the running either. However, there's so many exceptions to the rule with Iraqi stuff that I certainly can't rule it out being used by someone in Iraq for something at some time since the fall of Saddam.

    Steve

    Haydamaka
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    Re: Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by Haydamaka on Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:13 am

    I can just add that I agree with all the arguments provided by Steve.

    drmatz
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    Re: Unknown Camo Pattern

    Post by drmatz on Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:01 pm

    Central america tends to use a lot of "commercial" looking uniforms as well.. Many SF troops train soldiers from all over that region, could be somebody doing some type of school in the US that traded the shirt... Hard to pinpoint, but it could be an issued item...


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