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    Strange overdyed UCP jacket

    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
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    Location : New England, US
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    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Empty Strange overdyed UCP jacket

    Post by CollectinSteve Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:18 am

    I've had this weird jacket since 2012 and I don't think I've ever got an explanation of it...

    Strange overdyed UCP jacket B544e810
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket 57965310
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket A619b510

    What we have here is obviously overdyed UCP cloth, but it was dyed BEFORE it was manufactured and it was made with components not found on standard UPC jackets.

    It was made under a 2005 contract. The most obvious evidence this is special is the green velcro (including the plastic "hook" side) instead of gray. You can't dye plastic, so for sure this was made with non-standard components. The other thing is the tags do not look dyed. Sometimes that can be tricky to see, but they do appear in their original colors. Which makes sense since the velcro clearly indicates this is deliberate, so why dye the cloth after the garment is made? I suppose the cloth could have been printed in green tones, but I doubt that. Much cheaper to take a production cloth and dye it.

    Does anybody know anything about this? I bought it off eBay from a seller who was puzzled by the features, but otherwise didn't have anything interesting to say about it.

    Steve
    TennoHeikaNate
    TennoHeikaNate
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    Name : Nate
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    Registration date : 2013-10-16
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    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Empty Re: Strange overdyed UCP jacket

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:44 am

    I went back and found your original post from 2012, you've been searching for the answer for quite awhile!
    Unfortunately I can't speak for the purpose colored velcro, but I do have these pics of some dyed ACU pieces that were temporarily posted on a chat back in 2019 from a veteran who mentioned he brought them home after serving as an OPFOR member.
    He said for the made-up foreign OPFOR uniforms they dyed UCP ACU's green and blue for army and police forces, respectively, and had two of each example:
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket 15616010
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket 15616011
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket 15616012
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket 15616013

    My best guess is that coat was dyed for OPFOR purposes. For the velcro I can only speculate that it's either a coincidental color variation from that maker (I have a 2003 UCP ACU coat that has an unusual rounded mandarin collar tab compared to the square ones most others have) or perhaps maybe even it was dyed and changed from the factory as a potential dedicated OPFOR uniform or a trial to explore tweaking UCP's colors.
    Hopefully someone else comes along with a better answer, but I hope these pics will at least be informative to someone!
    -Nate
    CollectinSteve
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    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Empty Re: Strange overdyed UCP jacket

    Post by CollectinSteve Sun Jul 02, 2023 2:36 pm

    Overdying was not uncommon in Afghanistan in particular.  There's plenty of pictures of British with desert DPM overdyed.  I even have a piece lying around.  Airsoft guys also might do something like this because UCP is cheap (though not quite as cheap in 2012 when I got this!).  I rejected those possibilities because this jacket doesn't look like original UCP that was overdyed.  Usually you can see signs of it on the tags and the soft side of velcro.  Anything plastic should be in the same color as the standard pieces, also the thread sometimes doesn't take the dye very well.

    I REALLY do not want to think this is an experimental factory made item, but... it was made in 2005 and that was the first year of production for UCP.  That is suspicious!  I have not heard of any OPFOR or experimental color variations that early on.  UCP-D was done in 2008.  It would also be a very strange coincidence for someone to overdye a first year production jacket that also oddly had green plastic velcro and labels that didn't take any dye.

    Thanks for your thoughts!  Looks like my 11 year quest to find an answer continues Wink

    Steve

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    TennoHeikaNate
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    Name : Nate
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2013-10-16
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    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Empty Re: Strange overdyed UCP jacket

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:56 pm

    It's a hard tell for sure, but I've seen other examples of UCP that people have dyed various shades of green in which the tags did not take to the dye and remained white, or showed barely the faintest hint of dye but otherwise still looked white at a glance. It mostly came down to the process, type, brand, and amount of dye that was used.
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket S-l16010

    Another thing I do want to point out is that 2005 was not the first year of production, or at least the first contract date; 2003 was, as I mentioned I have a white tagged '03 dated wind resistant poplin top with a strange rounded edge mandarin collar tab, and an '04 dated top with DCU tan colored tags. I also have at least two different 2005 tops with noticeably different hard and soft velcro parts.
    So as far as the velcro is concerned, I don't think it's really a major factor here; soft velcro can take dye, and I've seen "green" colored hard plastic velcro like that before. It took them a fairly long time to get to the consistent gray colored velcro on later contract pieces. Keep in mind when UCP was first rolled out, they issued it with PASGT helmet covers and had OD insignia tapes for it, so it likely wasn't all that much of a concern if pieces like the velcro were more green colored. The third photo below here shows a Penn. National Guard member still wearing OD insignia on his UCP in 2005.

    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Maj_ar10
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Puerto10
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Sgt_sh10

    Here's a few examples of UCP tops I have, showing the large variety in color and style of the velcro and tags:
    2003 top:

    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Us_ar145
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Us_ar146
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket 33341710

    2004 top:
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Us_ar148
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Img_9010

    2005 tops:
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Us_ar150
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Us_ar149
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Img_9011
    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Img_9012


    And here they are in ascending order, notice the variation both in the color and style of the velcro, even among both the 2005 contract date ones, and that's just from four examples I had lying around.
    By comparison, even the soft velcro on the 2003 piece looks quite green compared to the later dated ones.

    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Img_9013

    The biggest possible indicator your coat has to being a factory dye job is the tags, and even then, it's possible those tags' material just didn't take to the dye.
    My view still leans towards it was dyed by a soldier either for OPFOR or possibly someone who was deployed and was trying to improve its camouflage.
    Either that, or some airsofter happened to grab that previously normal top with green colored velcro and dyed it, and the tag material did not take to the dye. Strange overdyed UCP jacket 1f609
    Regardless I'll still be keeping an eye out for you if I happen across other similar pieces.
    Regards,
    Nate
    CollectinSteve
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    Strange overdyed UCP jacket Empty Re: Strange overdyed UCP jacket

    Post by CollectinSteve Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:22 pm

    Great info! Thanks!

    Yes, I've seen labels with only sight signs of taking dye, others that soak it up like a sponge. Same with the soft velcro. Though the few examples I've seen tend to show signs. I'll look at my labels again very carefully and see if I can spot anything unusual about them.

    Good point about the variability of the color of the plastic bits. Would be rather good luck to have overdyed one with green plastic as by 2005 it seems gray was standard.

    The dates... those are interesting labels that show 2003 and 2004 dates because UCP didn't exist then. The CCU experiment was in 2003 and the CU experiment in 2004, both being the basis for ACU, which of course is what all UCP uniforms used.

    The camo trials were conducted during 2004 and conclusions were only tabulated late in that year (I have a presentation dated November).

    My guess is those early contract dates were manufactures already contracted with to produce BDU/DCU uniforms and their contracts were modified to accommodate ACU instead of cancelled. There would likely have been a big financial penalty for cancelling and rebidding very problematic, so modification would bet the logical bureaucratic solution.

    Steve

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