Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

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    Edward53
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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Edward53 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:16 pm

    Some nice items here. The NBC suits were carried (if at all) in the large pack if unopened. If opened, you had to try and roll them into the poncho roll which was next to impossible and you ended up with about a foot of material sticking out at each end.

    I like the cap in the first picture, looks an early shade of dpm.

    The buttoned smock liner is for the arctic and SAS windproofs. The type used with the parka has velcro ties; the sleeveless type is for wear under the combat smock.

    Your arctic smock is from about 1985 according to my list of contract numbers. The trousers look the same age or a bit later - they have a dark green shade to the dpm that you don't find before that.

    Are the LW trousers Imperial or metric sized? Sounds like they were on the cusp of a pattern transition. Contract number would help.

    I think the HM Supplies smocks were made from the mid 80s to sometime in the 90s. They were private purchase and not an issue item.

    Very nice colour to the 3rd jungle hat down, it has a 1970s look and has been cut down as they often were. Also a good early S6 bag in the same photo.

    That helmet is the one that followed the Mk6, I think a Mk6a but not certain. Mesh liner pad instead of three joined cords (perhaps you already knew this.)

    The woollen cuffs are a parka mod, they weren't ever made like that.

    The green-white reversible smock looks to be in very good condition. Usually the white coating is flaking off. These are not common, and if it's Size S, M or L then it's early and a really rare find. They were used a lot in the Falklands campaign but I think I have read that our chaps were discouraged from using the trousers. I've never seen an early pair of the trousers.

    Nice early 70s para beret. They are scarce!

    The dpm helmet cover seems to be a c. 1985 contract, so yes a rare early one. I haven't seen one with a CT contract number before, only ever with SL32 or 34.

    I like the Arktis chest rig. It looks quite early to me, possibly late 1980s going by the dpm colour and general appearance. From about the mid-90s they have a label inside the flap with the company telephone number. The ones before that just have the small "Arktis" label on the outside.

    I think the desert hat is probably early, going by the small ventilation grommets. The early Granby uniforms had a tendency to fade to that colour. If there is a maker's name on the label they are Granby period, if not they are later.

    Great thread! Your surplus store sounds like the sort of place we all want to find! Sadly it doesn't happen as often as we'd like..... Smile

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:50 pm

    Thanks, I think I've seen a few photos now of NBC stuff rolled somewhat "in" poncho rolls, just looking at the size of this stuff vacuum packed it's
    pretty massive together with the other stuff that's supposed to be rolled in there!

    The cap from the 1st pic is indeed early, it has an A/78 contract inkprinted in the crown, still very readable.

    And thanks for confirming my suspicions of the button and sleeves liner, I already had it inside the arctic smock, which is indeed one of the transitional
    ones that appeared around 84-85.
    Still looking to find a parka liner for a nice price, with the shippingcost from the UK it gets pretty pricey for just a liner.

    The LW trousers are metric sized and contracted CT2A/3394, there were also some that I think I remember as having almost the same contract number,
    but were of the last type without cargo pocket.

    And good to know the date range of the HM smock, so I can see what loadout I could use it for.

    The jungle hat is indeed early, like the cap it has an A/78 contract prefix.
    This S6 bag has 4 holes in the back where bits of string were poking through to fix it directly to a belt, and the strap has been removed. I already had an
    unmodified one laying around, so I bought this one because of the mod and it was dirtcheap.

    The helmet with the mesh pad is not a Mk6A though, the Mk6A is made in black with a rough shell and black mesh, this is an 80's smooth green shell helmet
    with green mesh in a sifferent configuration as the 6A ones.
    I've seen just one before in a facebook helmet collector group, it has some barely readable markings on the edge of the mesh pad, saying something like
    "liner, adjustable" and a faded NSN code after it. It was also an 80's green smooth shell.
    I think it's may have been a short run of a trial type meant for use with extra weight like the nape protector and visor, similar to how there was a very short
    run of Mk5 helmets with 3-point chinstrap and visor for riot use.

    And thanks for clarifying about the parka cuffs. What I find interesting about it though is that where they normally added such cuffs to the actual jacket's
    outer cuffs (like the temperate jacket in my last post), here they added them to the inside, giving it both the wool cuffs and the original adjustable strap cuffs.

    The reversible smock is quite good condition yes, the tapes have some slightly loose edges, but they don't seem like they were all completely pasted down anyway.
    There's no tag or marking to see a size on anymore, but at least just minimal flaking, which is nice!

    The beret was a lucky find on a sales website here in Holland, randomly popped up just at the moment I needed it, I've never seen such an early one for sale here
    before, just later ones reworked for WW2 reenacting.

    I'm quite happy with the early Mk6 cover, there was also one there with a strange contract number, no letters at all, just around 10 numbers, no idea what that
    would indicate.

    Which chestrig would you mean is early? I don't even know which type was earlier, with or without visible buttons. I've seen the buttoned ones in Granby pics, but
    I can't remember seeing the other ones on any, just in Balkan or later pics, are those a later type?
    There is a timeline thread for these rigs here on the forum, but all the pic links are dead, so no info to be found there.
    The one without buttons visible does have the inner tag, the 5 magpouches one too, and the 3+2 pouches rig doesn't.

    The DDPM boonie is early yes, it has a SL33B contract and a maker on the tag, I forgot which, I already put it in my storage with a WIP Granby kit.

    Most of this stuff came from the same store, though some stuff also comes from ebay and other websites. But this shop has been buyign large loads of UK surplus stuff
    lately, a bit of a hit and miss with what they find, but there's some real gems in there! I also found a round pockets p68 jacket which I was really looking for, but it has
    a pocket almost coming off, sadly such damaged items make up about a third of what they get in the crates.
    I usually visit this place about once every 2 months, in that time they'll have sorted through some more crates of stuff to put in the shop. I think there was also a
    Pecoc camo backpack but I forgot all about it, maybe it'll still be there the next time.

    Edward53
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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Edward53 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:18 am

    I didn't know that about the trials helmet, but my knowledge of trials kit is minimal and my knowledge of kit after 1991 is mostly limited to knowing what to avoid.

    I was referring to the Arktis chest rig. I know colour is not an infallible guide but that shade of dpm looks very early to me, perhaps one of the first ones made in the mid-80s. I have two Arktis rigs, one that I know is 1990 production and one I think is about the same age, and on both of them the camo colours show through on the inside of the material. Later ones I've seen show just off-white inside, so my theory is that's one way to tell an early one. But it's just a theory.

    I don't know what the helmet cover with the 10-digit number might be, trials perhaps? I've seen a few trials helmet covers recently but none that I believed were genuine.

    Here's my GW reversible smock and label. This one is unissued, a lucky find among a batch of later ones. I am 6 foot 2 tall and 44 chest and it is like a tent on me, not surprising as it's designed to go over combat clothing.




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:57 am

    Nice smock, very good condition, looks to be slightly different than mine?

    I don't think the 10-digit cover is a trials item, by the color etc. it looks to be later issue than the trial era of them.


    In the meantime some more British stuff came to me, so here's it is:


    2014 Canteen with stainless steel cup, 1944 pattern L-straps.




    Round pocket 1968 pattern jacket.




    2 PLCE90 bergen side pouches with yoke and straps, DPM bergen side pouch, arctic ECW mask.




    PLCE90 long back bergen with a faceveil and some small childrens stuff that was inside (not the Swiss hat).




    Mk4 helmet, rest is not British.




    Mk7 helmet with 1st type MTP Mk7 cover and ESS V12 goggles.







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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:08 pm

    Another green side pouch with yoke and straps, not sure what's up with the pouch lid color



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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:08 pm

    Now I got both versions of the Arctic Bergen. A guy here was selling it for just €10, can't refuse that. Now I'd just need the GS Bergen and the P72 Bergen
    to complete the line of these early nylon / Butyl-nylon bergens.

    It came with 2 long packstraps.




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:11 pm

    Finally got a early small 44 pattern pack today, just need to have a lower buckle for the L-strap, and a ring for closing the side pouch sewn on.
    Hence the extra side pouch, spare part.



    Edward53
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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Edward53 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:10 am

    Nice find on the RM bergen! Even nicer if it's pre 1982. I have an early one but I had to wait quite a while to find it and mine is missing the waistbelt.

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:37 pm

    Thanks! I'd have to check if the date in the pack is still visible, and where the marking on the frame is. The other one shown on a previous page is for sure very early.

    And I got something new again, British made, but supposedly came from Dutch trial use, hence the handwritten tag instead of a normal RBR printed one, Dutch 90's trial
    stuff mostly has handwritten tags or markings.

    It's an RBR F3, really light helmet, also seems like it's a smaller cut than others, as the rear linerbolts seem way closer to the edge than on say an F6.
    It has some features I think appear only on older RBR helmets, like flathead linerbolts, the simple crown linerpad, and a thicker webbing chinstrap.




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Camonut314 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:41 pm

    Interesting. Yet another lid to add to the RBR mystery. You think they just invented the naming scheme to muck with us Laughing ?

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:58 pm

    Most likely yes Razz
    I mean these don't seem to follow a pattern. I do tend to say that higher numbers might be heavier/thicker helmets, but as to the S or F prefixes it's a bit of a clusterf*ck of features.
    Some the same helmets are even way different, like there are F6 helmets with and without the foam inside the shell....

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:20 pm

    Some more stuff again, first a 58 pattern pickaxe, these may be called "pick, lightened" but I'm not 100% sure. It actually has the hole in the
    handle where it attaches to the P58 webbing.




    And then a 2nd type Combat Body Armour Mk2. The 2nd type has the rank tab on the front, rear attachment strap for the webbing belt, and still
    the old shitty way of stuffing the kevlar inside like with the Mk1 CBA.
    The 1st type Mk2 is the same but lacks the rank tab.
    The 3rd type is like the 2nd, but with a button at the back where the strap would normally be, reinforced corners on the plate pockets, and a zipper
    throughout the inside so you can actually get the kevlar in or out very easily.

    I quite like the color difference between some parts of this cover.



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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:15 pm

    More stuff yet again.

    In this pic only the Combat Cap, I've read it's Korean War era but I don't really know anything about it, including if they were ever worn and by whom.





    I believe this is an early WW2 British helmet net, one of the the woven types.





    A pair of ski boots as used in at least the British army, but I believe also by the Dutch marines, which is why I bought them, the rest of the stuff in the
    photo is Dutch KM.




    Some ski's, I think Norwegian made by Asnes, also used by the Brits and also Dutch marines, again why I bought them.





    And another of the early Arctic Bergen packs, this one with the frame in the original color. Also Dutch KM used and named like the previous old one,
    at least 3 names appear on it.
    Missing 1 ahoulder strap, but otherwise pretty good condition, even the markings are somewhat readable.




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Edward53 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:03 am

    That is a great early Arctic bergen. I have one dated 1979 also by CQC. Yours appears to be 1978? The frame on mine is dated 1980 and is the green Karrimor frame. These bergens come up for sale regularly in the UK but always dated 1983 and are almost impossible to find pre-1982.

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:08 pm

    Bit of a crappy pic, but still, the British bits are recognizable.

    2 Curious S6 gasmaskbags, as 1 is dated very early (1972) and the other has a foam insert in the spare filter pocket inside.
    Also shown is an L1A4 bayonet with white parade frog.






    And then a rather strange UN beret, well at least the badge is. Possibly something early, or theater made?


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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:42 pm

    Edward53 wrote:That is a great early Arctic bergen. I have one dated 1979 also by CQC. Yours appears to be 1978? The frame on mine is dated 1980 and is the green Karrimor frame. These bergens come up for sale regularly in the UK but always dated 1983 and are almost impossible to find pre-1982.

    All the early ones seem to be in Bloody Holland Edward by the look of things(along with a lot of other rare kit).

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:53 pm

    Yeah courtesy of the Dutch marine corps, who procured lots of British arctic kit around the time these packs appeared it seems, as
    all the ones I come across that were actually KM used are of the old type

    Here's some nice pics about that.
    The first sre marine para's with the packs, and then a pic with a display of other arctic gear




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:11 am

    Scouring rows of Dutch made and British made Dutch used Arctic Smocks has paid off. Finally found a pre-79 one!







    Found a lot of other stuff in the same place, but the British items here are the 2nd type green PLCE bayonet scabbard/frog and the wristlets.
    The P37 water bottle carrier might be British too, but has no markings and a number of weird repairs.




    And I looked at one of my sleeveless jacket liners and noticed it had 2 tags inside, no idea if that's normal.



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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Edward53 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:52 am

    Great Arctic smock and in the (IMO) ideal size! It was worth the effort to find that one.

    Re the two tags in the liner, some British combat clothing is occasionally found with an additional paper tailor's label. These would usually have been torn out or just come out in wear. Yours looks like one of these which the owner never bothered removing.

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:19 pm

    Today I found this armor, the British version of the US Ground Troops Variable Body Armor, and 2 bronzegreen helmet nets.
    The contract number dates this vest to sometime in 1975.
    Has anyone ever seen this vest in use?

    And it came with softarmor but without plates, did they use US made plates, or were there also British made ones?
    I do have a set of US plates that I'll be putting in there, but I'm still interested to hear about this, as I do know that US "M69" inserts were often put in the British version of that cover, which is also alluded
    to on the white tag in this vest.




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:26 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:Today I found this armor, the British version of the US Ground Troops Variable Body Armor, and 2 bronzegreen helmet nets.
    The contract number dates this vest to sometime in 1975.
    Has anyone ever seen this vest in use?

    And it came with softarmor but without plates, did they use US made plates, or were there also British made ones?
    I do have a set of US plates that I'll be putting in there, but I'm still interested to hear about this, as I do know that US "M69" inserts were often put in the British version of that cover, which is also alluded
    to on the white tag in this vest.




    There have been quite a few on Ebay UK recently.

    Have some period pics somewhere of this type of vest used in NI.

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:26 pm

    Yeah I think I've seen at least 2 sell in the last few months. And there's also a shop that sells actual US ones.

    If you happen to find the pic again, please post it here, I haven't been able to find any pics of it yet.

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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:06 am

    Turns out my plates are even the same size as the vest. I bought these at the same fair about 6 years ago, talk about the odds of that.




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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat May 19, 2018 4:11 pm

    Some new British finds again, some will need to be identified though.

    First a backpack in Pecoc Hybrid camo, said to have come from a Polish seller that claimed it was made for Dutch trials. Most likely untrue, maybe didn't know the difference between the UK and Holland.






    Then some straps, no idea what these are for. The khaki ones might be wartime, and have a Dutch MvO stamp on them, as found on lots of British wartime stuff that was reissued later.
    The green ones have hardware and material like P44 web gear.




    Another old beat up cheapass DPM boonie. The waterproof mittens at the top-right are actually dutch KM, copied of British Arctic outer mittens.




    This needs a definite ID, to me it looks like it might be some British bush jacket, but I don't klnow for sure, and there are no visible markings aside from a small tag in the neck that probably has part of someone's ID number on it.
    No button at the collar, so worn open neck.
    2 Belt loops at the back.
    Chest pockets have small pressstuds at the corners of the flaps, might be added later, have also been sewn shut, but only around the studs.







    Another 80's DPM Windproof Acrtic Smock, transitional type.
    Both sleeves have a small pocket, and it had a loop at both the front and back but the back one has been removed.
    Then a weird bit, the contract number, it doesn't make any sense in British contract number standards.
    I've seen a Mk6 helmet cover with a very similar number once, and I know who has it, so I'll buy it later.
    No idea what's up with these numbers, maybe export?





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    Re: Some recent British finds, and some questions, Part 2!

    Post by Wolverine on Sat May 19, 2018 6:49 pm

    On those mystery straps, the ZA prefix on the stock number likely indicates that they are related to signals equiopment.

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