Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions

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    Post by Glencoe on Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:19 am

    Hello everyone,

    I'm trying to assemble a complete set of load bearing equipment, basically what was in use from the 1990s until the new molle system came into use. I don't quite know which pouches came with it, can anyone give me an indication or perhaps the official name of this equipment?

    Things I've gotten so far:

    - Load bearing system size L
    - Waterbottle pouch 2X
    - Small utility pouch 2X
    - knife pouch
    - entrenching tool carrier

    Thanks in advance,

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    Post by Wolverine on Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:31 am

    -magazine pouches for rifle
    -magazine pouches for Uzi
    -respirator carrier
    -small rucksack
    -ROTOTA

    I have seen all of this stuff in desert DPM too, except for the rifle pouches.


    Last edited by Wolverine on Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Glencoe on Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:20 pm

    Thanks!, I will keep a lookout for them

    I've got one RoToTa; This isn't the official name but it basically is soldier slang for Ronny Tober Tas (bag).
    Google told me Ronny Tober is a dutch singer with somewhat a big belly. As this bag is supposed to be worn on the stomach some people made a connection.

    I'm quite sure there also is a pistol holster for this set, perhaps with its own ammunition pouch.

    If anyone knows any official names/ designations or knows if there is a standard list of issued pouches (there seems to be one for the 'new' Opsvest.).
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    Post by Wolverine on Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:31 pm

    Yes, the same story has been told about Ronny Tober before in another thread.

    I forgot to mention the holster. I have a couple of those, but I don't believe that a separate ammunition pouch exists.

    There may also be a rifle grenade bandoleer that could be counted as part of this set.
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    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:40 pm

    There were actually just 1 canteen and 1 small utility pouch issued with the vest.

    If you see anyone with 2 canteens, it's not issued like that, there's some that buy an extra or "acquire" it some way. I've also seen a guy with an extra US 2-liter canteen on his hip.

    It's basically called M93 combat vest, or combat harness (harnas). Not sure if these are official names or also just soldier though up names or maybe by collectors, but it seems the most used name in both communities.

    Rifle magpouches in desert were never made for some reason.
    There also was no magpouch for the pistol, they just used either the small utility pouch, or bought something themselves (I have a photo of a random black single pouch used).
    In the earlier trials vests there were pistol magpouches, but were not accepted for whatever reason.

    There's magpouches for the FAL and for the C7, the FAL ones are shorter and wider. There's not many of the FAL ones around, but there's 2 types, you need the late one.
    Early ones have a green band on the back where the clips are attached, these pouches are from the trial vest before 1993.
    And the late one has the normal camo back band.

    I don't think I've ever seen any bandoleer as part of the vest though.


    Oh and apparently there's also a pouch for sniper rifles, looks like the normal pouches, but very short, almost square shaped.
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    Post by Glencoe on Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:47 pm

    Thanks!

    I've recently bought a 1995 ammo pouch and a holster (date on the label is very faint).

    I think it is quite complete now!
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    Post by Glencoe on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:18 pm

    I've got a few pieces together now. They pretty much are all 1990s made pouches with different manufacturers


    First, two small pouches and a pouch for the pocket knife.

    The pouches are differing in manufacturer, with one being marked only with NSN.
    One pouch was made in 1996 by H Fine and son LTD. The two ALICE clips on the back seem larger than the other pouches

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2832

    Then comes a holster and a magazine pouch. The holster design seems based on the earlier m52 designs.

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2826

    Two waterbottles in pouches. I bought one as a complete set with a 1993 pouch, a 1994 mug and a 2011 bottle.

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2827

    The folding shovel is 1986 dated, which must be one of the earliest issued to the dutch army.

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2825

    The belt has got loops on the back for the clips to go through. Only a short portion of the belt has got loops sewn on them, but it can be made very long.
    Has anybody got an idea when this belt was worn?

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2829

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2828

    I've been told that the following are the first pattern of utility straps made in DPM. They pretty much follow the p08/ p37 / m52 utility straps. A piece of DPM webbing with a plastic buckle.

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2831

    The gasmaskbag (quite literal translation) is of a somewhat lighter colour than the other webbing. It is in an pretty much unused state. I've added a carrying strap that I bought seperately.

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2830

    And as last a small goods bag (another quick translation).

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Cimg2833

    I'm planning to buy another ammunition pouch and perhaps a kevlar helmet when I've got the space. Meanwhile I will make do with a DPM helmet cover for the steel helmet.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:13 pm

    That's quite a haul! Congratulations on piecing this together. I expect some parts were not easy to find.

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    Post by Glencoe on Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:32 pm

    Most of this is quite easy to find, I'm living in the Netherlands and this stuff has been fased out from 2007 onwards. The M.O.D. has been selling it by the crate to surplus dealers. The holster is probably the most rare.
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    Post by michelwijnand on Sat May 19, 2018 4:37 pm

    Most of this is for the modular vest, except for the top-left 3 pouches, the first 2 being for the M93 vest.
    I found this load today, and noticed the magazine pouch has a Spanish type closure instead of the regular buckle.
    No idea if this type was already known, but I first notived it today.
    It's dated 1999, so I'm gonna go ahead and call this the 2nd type.

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    Post by michelwijnand on Tue May 29, 2018 4:44 pm

    Got some M93 vest related gear, since I wanted to make mine more complete.
    I think the only part of the original issue complex that I'm still missing is the holster.
    There's many other pouches that can attach to the vest with the alice clips, like radio- and NVG-lens-pouches, but to my knowledge those appeared
    after the initial release of the vest.

    Another related part is the little adapter hanger in the center. Not meant to be used with the vest, but instead made to enable the use of alice-clip gear
    on the older webbing belt with eyelets for belthooks.

    The bottom piece is also not part of the vest, but related, as for some reason the Dutch MoD had the bright idea to not have grenade pouches, so in their
    infinite wisdom they made this bandoleer-thing. Having 2 tie-straps, I'm not exactly sure how to wear it, and I also haven't seen it in use in any photos.


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    Post by Glencoe on Wed May 30, 2018 7:17 am

    Nice finds!, I wonder if the adapters saw much use. In my experience the alice gear clips onto the m52 belt just fine.

    The utility straps shown here are the first pattern I believe. Later came a new model with a solid buckle.
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    Post by michelwijnand on Wed May 30, 2018 8:32 am

    Yeah no idea why they made those, the belt is thick, but not too thick for the clips to fit. Maybe they just liked the idea of stuff being slung below the betl, instead of worn on the same height.

    Yeah it's the old type straps, I already had some straps, but it occured to me I didn't have this type yet, all were the olate type, so I took some now.
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    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:26 pm

    Some more stuff that came later, but was meant for use with the M93 type vest.
    These all seem to have been issued from around 2000, at least that's what the dates for the creation of the NSN codes say, except
    the FAL pouches which were made from 1993 already.


    First aid bag, fold open, several compartments, wearable with a shouldersling, alice hooks, velcrobeltloops (same as on gasmask bags),
    and 2 clips which I assume attach to the buckles the rotota or sleeping bag would also normally attach to.

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    Then 2 long pouches, the one way on the left is a complete unknown to me, maybe some rifle scope that doesn't require batteries,
    as there's no small pockets inside, just a main compartment.
    Then the one at the right, which is for 1 of 3 light amplification weapon sights, which are the HV Munos (Diemaco), HV Kite (Minimi)
    and HV MAG (take a guess). I think the Kite's bag is different, so it would then be for 1 of the others.

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    And then some pouches that are a set together. They are meant to carry a light amplification monocular and it's accesories.
    Left to right are the pouches for: the NV monocular, helmet- and headmount, and an extra lens-attachment.

    Dutch load bearing system ''bokketuig'' questions Dsc05022
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    And here the 3 pouches from the left at the bottom row.
    The first is called "Tas, Portofoon", and is meant for a type of radio, but I can't find out what type (yet).
    The 2nd and 3rd are FAL magazine pouches, shorter than the regularly seen Diemaco ones, and apparently made in Germany.

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    Post by Wolverine on Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:40 am

    I must check my rifle pouches to see if I have any of the German ones.
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    Post by michelwijnand on Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:58 pm

    Found some sniper magazine pouches, apparently for an accuracy international rifle, as that's what I've seen these pouches specifically called.

    Alice clips on the back, so meant to go on M93 type gear, but can still be seen in very recent KCT pics with them already in Multicam type uniforms
    and Molle gear.

    No stamps or labels, but I suspect they are made by KMA.

    2 different types of closure buckles, both variations of the Spanish buckle.

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    Also found this bag at the right, meant for the HV-Kite sight for the FN Minimi.

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