Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

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    Antarmike
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    Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:00 pm

    I have decided to try and replace some of the pbhoto in tensive threads i started that wee lost when Photobucket tried to blackmail me, and i refused to pay,  I will start with some Helmets, some you have seen on here, even though the pictures have long gone, a few are new

    Nearest M71 with french suspension, beside M71 with belgian suspension syste,
    print screen windows xp
    and inside of same Belgian on left/ french on right

    Tanlers /armoured vehicle crew helmet

    M51 left, tanker's helmet right

    Inside US ballistic adopted by ABL and right a fairly common M51 again.

    Inside M51's airforce and UN.



    Postimage playing up yonight, and one out of focus shot to retake tomorrow,,,,
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:28 am

    M71 Helmets, On the left the French system adopted by the Belgians for this helmet, On the right the Belgian system, that was replaced on taler production.

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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:34 am

    Nice collection! What years was the UK type helmet used for? I have one and not sure when in the 1950s it was discontinued.

    Note that the helmet next to the French one is German in origin. IIRC it is officially known as Model 1A1 Luftlandetruppenstahlhem, but commonly referred to as M61. As was, and still is, Germany and France provided lots and lots of helmets to the smaller European militaries. I don't know if they were surplus or if they were produced explicitly for the Belgians.

    Here's some shots of it with the BW netting on it:

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/bundeswehr-forum/bundeswehr-steel-helmets-29578/

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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:20 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Nice collection!  What years was the UK type helmet used for?  I have one and not sure when in the 1950s it was discontinued.

    Note that the helmet next to the French one is German in origin.  IIRC it is officially known as Model 1A1 Luftlandetruppenstahlhem, but commonly referred to as M61.  As was, and still is, Germany and France provided lots and lots of helmets to the smaller European militaries.  I don't know if they were surplus or if they were produced explicitly for the Belgians.

    Here's some shots of it with the BW netting on it:

    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/bundeswehr-forum/bundeswehr-steel-helmets-29578/

    Steve
    I am told the Brodie Helmet were made (by FN) from 49 to 53.  How long they stayed in service after that I do not know for sure.  The Tankers helmet by the way is dated 1960 inside the suspension system.

    Thanks for info on M61 I incorrectly identified as M71, but that was how it was described when I bought it. I will see if I can find any clues as to date or manufacturer, I have had the suspension out once becase there was a US woodland cover (remains off) that had once been fitted but then cut off leaving some trapped inside the helmet betwen the helmet and the suspension. My only thouht was to tidy up the helmet my removing this material, not looking for dates or makers marks.
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:12 pm

    I hadn't seen the BW jump helmets referred to as M61 before. Do they date back that far?

    The Belgian example I have has the BW-type suspension and chinstrap, but a Belgian NSN. I will have to check to see who the maker was, but I don't think these were simply surplus helmets passed off to the Belgium.
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:24 pm

    Helmet talk... always an enjoyable experience Wink

    For sure the Bundeswehr started using the helmets in 1961. I've got pics of one dated April 1961. I'm away from my books so I can't give exact details.

    The BW adopted the US style shell with WW2 style leather liner and straps after several batches of helmets (including the WW2 M38) were rejected. The rest of the Bundeswehr got helmets with webbing neck straps without screw lugs soon after.

    I'm pretty sure the Belgian production was specifically for them and not surplus, but there could have been a mix. A few years ago Sportsmans Guide was selling these and I picked one up. It has the remains of a Jigsaw helmet cover on it. The practice was to put the cover on and then screw the strap lugs through it. A black rubber band was heat shrunk around the rim.

    Mike, it wouldn't surprise me if the Belgian designation is M71. I don't know what the Belgians called it, but I doubt it would be the same as the Germans.

    Thanks for the date range. That makes sense to me. I have pics of a US type two piece Belgian helmet
    with a clear ABL 1955 stamp in it. So at the very least they moved to US type at that time.

    Steve

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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:42 pm

    The M71 designation may well apply to the ABL version of the BW model, since the Belgians were using the British-type jump helmet until relatively late.
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:55 am

    Wolverine wrote:I hadn't seen the BW jump helmets referred to as M61 before. Do they date back that far?

    The Belgian example I have has the BW-type suspension and chinstrap, but a Belgian NSN. I will have to check to see who the maker was, but I don't think these were simply surplus helmets passed off to the Belgium.
    Several sites confirm introduced in 1961. One site calls it M61 but that, being honest,  is probably un-official  designation.

    https://www.world-war-helmets.com/fiche?q=Casque-Ouest-Allemand-Modell-1A1-Luftlandetruppenstahlhelm
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:25 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:Helmet talk... always an enjoyable experience Wink

     It has the remains of a Jigsaw helmet cover on it.  The practice was to put the cover on and then screw the strap lugs through it.  A black rubber band was heat shrunk around the rim.



    Mine had US woodland cover screwed through the lugs when I got it but most had bbeen cut off, so I took out the remains.



    I wonder if 02 signifies 2002 as a date for the cover, If so it must have been fitted pretty near the end of the helmets service life?
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:02 am

    Regarding the jump helmets I have found quite a lengthy explanation on a facebook group.

    The key points claimed there is the 1A1 LL was introduced into the BW in 1961.  

    In the late 60's the Belgians were still using WW2 era British Mark II AT paratrooper helmet and Belgian-made clones of the same helmet.
    It was only in the late 60's early 70's that Belgium identified the need for a new jump helmet.

    The Belgians did not adopt the 1A1 LL style helmet with the German suspension system until 1971, which is why the helmet was given the M71 designation in Belgium.

    The Helmet with the French suspension was not introduced in Belgium until the 1980's.  These were conversions of the earlier German suspension system helmets they already had, rather than a new production run, and that four of the plastic plugs fill the previous, now unused holes in the helmet, whilst other mount the new suspension.

    There does not seem to be a new designation for the modified Helmet, which continued to be identified as M71.
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:52 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:Helmet talk... always an enjoyable experience Wink

     I have pics of a US type two piece Belgian helmet
    with a clear ABL 1955 stamp in it.  So at the very least they moved to US type at that time.

    Steve

    Both my Belgian M51 helmets have similar dated liners Both are by COGEBI (the Belgian General Insulation Company)  and both appear to be dated 1955 (one is clearer than the other but looking through an eyeglass I am 90% sure both say 1955.





    Last edited by Antarmike on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:03 am

    M71 mystery solved Smile

    OK, looks like the M51 had a healthy production run in 1955. The Belgians tended to purchase large amounts of stuff and then live off of them for ages.

    BTW, the Belgian military put out an edict in the mid 2000s that forbid the use of non-issued camo, even for Para/Commandos. That was when the current ripstop uniforms became available in sufficient quantities. Up until then the Para/Commandos could wear pretty much anything they wanted, including foreign camo.

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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Wolverine on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:00 am

    The contract date on the ERDL cover is 1981.
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:24 am

    Wolverine wrote:The contract date on the ERDL cover is 1981.
    Thanks for Info.
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Wolverine on Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:13 pm

    Mike, can I add some images of my helmets here?
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:15 am

    Wolverine wrote:Mike, can I add some images of my helmets here?
    of course you may, I like to see what is in other peoples Belgian collection, then I know what I need to search out!
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    Re: Some Belgium Helmets / Casques

    Post by Antarmike on Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:06 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:..........  I have pics of a US type two piece Belgian helmet
    with a clear ABL 1955 stamp in it.  So at the very least they moved to US type at that time.

    Steve

    1952 dated M51 US style helmet,  Library pictures , not one of my helmets.

    I have not yet seen anything to date one to 1951, but I guess they are out there somewhere.



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