Spotting probable faked SEAL items

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    CollectinSteve
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    Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:08 pm

    I just saw this on eBay:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250486078842#ht_11396wt_1129

    As I'm sure most people know, there is a VERY rare NATIC LABS made item which is worth hundreds and hundreds of Dollars. Just about a year ago I saw one that went for $1245 that was brand new and still had NATIC's inventory tags on it. Which is why people go about making fakes Sad

    The above linked to item is an apparent fake. Putting aside inconsistencies with the real item (I can spot a couple possible ones), does anybody see the subtle signs that this is a regular ERDL jacket that was modified to appear to be a SEAL jacket? Here's what I noticed:

    1. (the obvious one) originally had chest slash pockets on it that were removed.
    2. Tags are conveniently missing.
    3. Neck tag is too square compared to the more rectangular original.
    4. There is a repair to the upper back, just below the seam of the shoulder section. From what I can see, the stitching for the reinforcement backing for the pull strings is OVER the repair. Which, of course, is impossible unless the "original feature" was installed after battle damage and repair.
    5. Hard to tell for sure, but it looks like the stitching on the SEAL specific stuff is "newer" looking than the original stitching. Lack of fading, more crisp, etc.
    6. The magazine pouch pull straps look brand new.

    I'm certainly no expect on this particular item, so for all I know someone is going to come here and state that such and such an author verified that NATIC modified used jackets Very Happy But my guess is that won't happen. So I think this is an interesting example for us to pick apart in order to learn from.

    What other issues do people see? Are there other signs of forgery, other than mistakes made on the features themselves? What are the mistakes made on the features? (I can see at least one - belt loops too wide).

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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by panzerwerk on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:12 pm

    The tags are a dead giveaway , and they look freshly removed , not to mention the other things you have spotted , this same seller had one very similar up a week or 2 ago , you could see where the slant pockets had been removed , he should just sell it as a repo , but I guess he is trying to get the uninformed to plunk down big bucks .
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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by bond007a1 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:27 pm

    OK..I moved this one here to the faked items...and I am going to pop all 15 pics on here for discussion purposes...









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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by bond007a1 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:28 pm













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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by bond007a1 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:30 pm











    (NOTE ALL 15 PHOTOS ARE THE PROPERTY OF THE SELLER "saimlesbaer"


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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Mercenary25 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:14 pm

    Yes, everyone is right. It is a crap fake. There was too many fake seal jacket on ebay recently this month.

    I'm going to make a new thread about this type of jacket. I found really good reference photos.


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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Mercenary25 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:55 pm



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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by filupe on Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:14 pm

    It still is a blatant misrepresentation although he *does* imply that it has been made from a standard ERDL jungle jacket.

    A genuine one closed on EBay Australia last week:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370244218750&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    This one appeared to be the rarer non-ripstop poplin version (although the accompanying ERDL pants were ripstop). My estimation is that for the winning bidder it was still a sweet deal as this item did not show up on EBay US or else the winning price would probably have been considerably higher.
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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Flecktarn92 on Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:41 pm

    man i wish people who do this stuff on ebay could be banned
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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:50 pm

    man i wish people who do this stuff on ebay could be banned

    There would be no more ebay , I wish someone would make a Ebay like site to sell just militaria , that was easy to use .
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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:02 pm

    The problem is there are two types of sellers of fake items. Those who KNOW they are fakes and those who got duped by someone else and are unknowingly selling a fake. It's often hard to tell which one it is. If you contact the seller and offer a correction, and the seller amends the listing... then it's obviously a mistake. If the seller does not amend, then it's either because he is a deliberate fraud or he doesn't believe some random eBay buyer has the right info.

    Either way, bad stuff is out there and there's no easy way to purge it.

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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by panzerwerk on Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:13 pm

    Relisted ,Now With Bids Suspect

    A fool and his money will soon be parted , or maybe he's and airsofter or reenactor who does not want to spend the big bucks for a real one .

    Click Here
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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Mercenary25 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:28 pm

    There are four fake vests on ebay right now.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vietnam-ERDL-Camo-Ammo-Vest-SEAL_W0QQitemZ250524479485QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a546c2ffd#ht_12438wt_1167

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vietnam-ERDL-Camo-Ammo-Vest-SEAL_W0QQitemZ250524481288QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a546c3708#ht_9974wt_1167

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vietnam-ERDL-Camo-Ammo-Vest-SEAL_W0QQitemZ250524479485QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a546c2ffd

    All three above is being sold by same seller. Have he found secret stash of vests? Laughing

    Another one from different seller.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vietnam-war-NAVY-SEAL-UDT-RIFLE-MAN-VEST-COAT_W0QQitemZ220504583546QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335718ed7a


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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by jj on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:33 pm

    Gee,shadow from where pockets were removed,AND they're all,every single one,from Thailand.

    Nothing good,at least for collectors,comes out of Thailand. I know of at least 2 "collector/dealers" who make frequent trips to Thailand to buy,for collectors, 'Genuine,in country,VN war era made" scrolls,uniforms,ect. They have ryker mounts FILLED with "rare" SF and SOG "handmade" scrolls,beret flashes,SSI ect.,and they all are identical in construction. Same with these jackets. Nothing but crap.

    Would be OK to fill a hole in a collection,but the crap needs to be presented as what it is.

    If you want to know who to avoid as far as the dealers I mentioned,PM me.
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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Mercenary25 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:02 am

    Indeed, JJ. I never buy anything from thailand, they aren't to be trusted but I heard that thailand also had a lot of legit stuff. Hmm.

    I agree that it would make nice hole filler in collection, I would be interested in one myself but not for over $50.


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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Mercenary25 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:04 am

    And how stupid could people be? Just simply take a look at ghosts where pockets were and it's screaming fake. Other ways to notice fake are different camo material, for example, brown dominated pouches on green dominated jacket and straps that looks too new for pretty faded jacket.


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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:15 pm

    To be fair to the seller, note that he doesn't say these items are original/unaltered. For some other stuff he does say "original patches" or what not and others he doesn't. Obviously he doesn't clarify that these are all recent manufacture, but he does provide plenty of photos to show that they are. It's a gray area, however we've all seen what blatant, deliberate misrepresentation looks like to compare against Wink

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    Re: Spotting probable faked SEAL items

    Post by Mercenary25 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:39 pm

    Steve, do you own a real piece?


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