M81.... Why??

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    M81.... Why??

    Post by Guessologist on Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:21 am


    All,

    A recent comment by one of the members here has got me thinking...... M81 yawn yawn.

    Why, with all the good patterns out there, would someone elect to use woodland BDUs?

    Other than the obvious: Surplus stock supplied by the US

    Is it particularly effective?

    I'd be interested in others comments and thoughts on this.


    Cheers,
    Ben.

    if we've had this discussion before... then oops

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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Philip on Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:54 am

    M81 and DPM are maybe the most copied patterns out there. Why? I don't know.


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Camo_fiend on Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:44 pm

    Okay, being the geek that I am, I must admit a friend and I did some tests. God just typing this makes me feel like an over-the-top way too hardcore airsofter. lol!
    We weren't trying to do a legitimate "this is best for woodland" test, we just grabbed 4 camos at random and decided to see how they'd fare. This test was obviously not to the calibre of governmental research, but it suited our purposes. We based it on sight when stationary, and the how long it took an observer to detect motion when the wearer of a pattern moved, and found the M81 to be a so-so pattern for general woodland use, but conditions had to be just right. However, this was in the spring, when there'd be the most green, so that may have impacted the tests in one way or another.

    We only tested one distance (75 yards) so like I said, it wasn't very professionally conducted. We picked a happy medium between "too close" and "too far" given the conditions (and our lack of optics for longer distances.) Laughing

    From 75 yards, the M81 worked best when there was significant underbrush/low vegetation, accompanied with a proper amount of canopy cover to help the black and brown be used to full effect. Even then, it was hit and miss: Too much vegetation, brown and black made visable contrast; too much shadow and the green & tan created an exposing contrast. As I said, it was hit or miss. Depending on position, the M81 either worked or it didn't, there wasn't very much of a middle ground.

    Interestingly enough, the very simple 2-colour Soviet "berezka" pattern concealed the wearer better than M81 in both open vegetation, and underbrush/vegetation with canopy cover.

    We tested two other patterns also -- Czech "Clown" (Mlok) and MultiCam. Both fared decently; we were impressed with how well the Mlok actually did, despite its asinine appearance.

    Our procedure wasn't very scientific or professional, but it was still fun. Cool


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Guessologist on Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:54 pm

    Philip wrote:M81 and DPM are maybe the most copied patterns out there. Why? I don't know.

    Yeah, but with DPM, at least a few of the countries change the colours slightly...


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by AndrewA74 on Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:48 pm

    Me and a friend were playing airsoft once and it was fall and I was wearing a set of worn out Woodland BDU's with a boonie hat. I was hiding behind maybe a 3 inch berm in the woods and I swear he looked at me 3 or 4 times but never saw me. So I believe that in the forests of North Carolina that Woodland Camo works. Now I don't see DPM fitting in, nethier do I see Tiger Stripe working.
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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Guessologist on Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:41 pm



    Ok, so comments didn't come flooding in..... I guess no one really knows or cares. M81??


    My next question is.. Why are DCU's so popular? It's not as if they will ever become particularly rare....



    Cheers,
    Ben.

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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by nkomo on Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:18 pm

    Guessologist wrote:

    Ok, so comments didn't come flooding in..... I guess no one really knows or cares. M81??


    My next question is.. Why are DCU's so popular? It's not as if they will ever become particularly rare....



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    Ben,
    I think it had something to do with other countries wanting to copy the "look" of the US military. A lot of countries in the 80's and 90's received aid and training from the US. That is the only thing I could figure. Maybe trying to keep up with the "Joneses" so to speak????

    As far as DCU's being popular. I think a lot of it has to do with these patterns being used heavily in both Afghanistan and Iraq in a combat setting. The DCU is kind of the iconic pattern associated with US forces during both of these conflicts. Modified DCU's are also associated with the US Special Forces from that time period.

    I don't think DCU's will ever become extremely rare, but nice patched ones will always be in demand. Special Forces patched DCU's will always sell (as will SF gear). In the past, we've seen SF ID'd DCU's sell in excess of $300 a piece. The prices have leveled off a bit now, but SF patched and ID'd DCU's still bring good money and can get numerous bids.

    That being said, I'm sure people said the same about US jungle jackets after Vietnam as they are about DCU's now. The price on a good patched SF jungle jacket is insane. If the jungle jacket is ID'd.....the prices are $250 on up.

    Why DCU's are popular boils down to the fact that some collectors collect a specefic time period, war, operation, etc. I know I have sold off a lot of my world camo uniforms and am focusing more on certain time periods (not just desert). It is just my personal preference.


    Last edited by nkomo on Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:41 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Camosaurus on Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:24 pm

    Sorry Ben, did not see this. If we're talking about the US woodland the reason behind why it's so "popular" here is that you have to see that the mentality of the people here is that anything "American" is good. That's for being a colony before the war. And, everybody here wants to be an American soldier so they dress up in US woodland. Anything less they will find it "inferior". There is also the surplus market here where US uniforms are dumped off base making it very accessible to anyone and everyone.

    I'm not an expert on the effectiveness of a pattern but I think the CADPAT will work much better here than the US woodland. ACU is useless here as soldiers stand out in the elephant grass we have here. Even SF troops deployed on the field here still wear the US woodland.

    I have 2 DCU sets in my collection and I would rather collect something else than adding another set to my collection. It's too common right now, maybe in 30 yrs time when it gets scarce then I'd take notice.

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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by nkomo on Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:58 pm

    Another reason I think DCU's are so popular is that a lot of collectors (WW2, Vietnam, etc) are buying these things up as "investments" for the future. They plan on selling them to newer collectors for big bucks and using the money to finance their other militaria hobbies. Not a wise gamble in my opinion.

    I know I collect DCU's for historical purposes and because I enjoy this particular time period in history. I personally want the DCU craze to die down. Laughing That will bring the prices down and thus make it more affordable for me.

    If you want to buy DCU's for "investment" purposes, buy ones that have the following attributes or a combination of the ones listed:

    1. Named
    2. Badged out (qualification badges)
    3. Comabt unit
    4. Special Forces of any branch
    5. Officer rank
    6. Theatre made insignia

    If you take away the "closet" collectors of DCU's, I think you will have a "hard core" group who truly are DCU collectors. I don't think the craze is as wide spread as you think. That is my opinion only. I could be wrong.


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:59 pm

    G'day Ben! Sorry, I also missed your post when it came around the first time.

    The BDU cut is fairly functional and "smart looking", so it's not a bad pattern to copy. But why are Woodland, 6 Color Desert, and 3 Color Desert patterns so widely copied? I echo the statements above. The US sets a lot of trends all over the world, good and bad, so it is not surprising that it's military items are also copied.

    On top of that, many modern armed forces were rebuilt/retrained/trained by US military personnel. I think that has a lot to do with the adoption of US type uniforms. And it makes sense.

    What has NEVER made sense to me is why nations who supposedly are opposed to the United States wear uniforms that are nearly identical to US uniforms. Iran springs to mind right away. There are many others.

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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Guessologist on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 am

    Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate the time. I suppose I just find it interesting, but can't seem to get the enthusiasm over them to jump on the bandwagon. All the more for you Arch Wink

    Does make sense, but I'm all for national identity in uniforms. That being said Multicam might go part-way in destroying Australias.....boo. thumbs down to multicam for Aussies. At least the Poms went MTP...


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Camo_fiend on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:50 am

    DPCU is without a doubt uniquely Australian. I'll be sad to see Auscam go, as I also like the idea of the uniforms as national identifiers; DPM for the Brits, DPCU for the Aussies, M81/ACU for us Yanks, so on and so forth. At this rate, pretty soon the whole world will be wearing MultiCam or some variant thereof...


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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:18 am

    I agree... I like national identity in uniform patterns and cut. However, I have seen some awesome efforts by nations to have national identity through badging. Sometimes a couple of flashy badges here and there on an otherwise boring uniform can make all the difference for me Very Happy

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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Guessologist on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:40 pm

    Flashy badging may just defeat the purposes of having the best (most effective) camouflage out there.... the rationale behind the changes to MC. Certainly the spin the Aus government is putting on the adoption of MC for their Special Ops guys. At least they're not adopting M81 Wink
    Like most of us, I watch the developments of nations towards uniformity (no pun intended) and with interest a certain amount of trepidation.


    Cheers,
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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by panzerwerk on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:58 pm

    DPCU is without a doubt uniquely Australian

    Sorry I dont agree with this statement , Auscam is a refined copy of the U.S. pattern its basically fancy Duckhunter , I am not belittling it , and I very much like the pattern , but I do not see it as unique really , if you want an original pattern , something like the early Russian "computer" comes to mind , it was before there really were computers around , and now everything is some kind of digi .

    As far as woodland goes , I personally love it , I think it and its early ERDL cousins are some of the best most effective patters ever made , it has become boring as there is so much of it available now ,at least DCU's had a much shorter life span making them much more collectible , and throw in the various "Modded" and test pieces,Theater insignia and such , and you have a collection all on its own .
    Of course this is just my worthless opinion LOL.

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    Re: M81.... Why??

    Post by Guessologist on Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:20 pm

    I think the comment "uniquely Australia" may refer to the fact that Australian troops are immediately identifiable by the pattern/colouration.
    Most people would agree that it is a spot pattern or "duck Hunter" and possibly inspired by these, but with a unique twist in the colours. Certainly it's development/introduction in the v.early 80's would have given developers a chance to look at a myriad of pattern types including lizard and leaf/woodland.

    If we all liked the same things, it'd be a very dull world out there... and prices for things (that we all liked and wanted) would skyrocket.


    Cheers,
    Ben.

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