Some Czech camo

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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:09 am

    Very nice jacket and beret! I can not read the jacket's date. I think these were only made in the 1970s and 1980s.

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    Post by panzerwerk on Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:42 am

    Love the beret !!
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    Post by joni firpo on Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:51 am

    vonstuck wrote:Some Czech camo - Page 2 100_0210

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    The beret is nice! However I think the badge was added later to the jacket, as it is the simple "land forces" version, not the paratrooper's jacket.
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    Post by vonstuck on Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:59 pm

    Hello
    In this book the jacket look identical as mine
    Only one pocket in the front
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    Post by joni firpo on Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:27 pm

    Hi Gilles! The difference between the "ground forces" and "airborne" shirts is very minor, and impossible to see on the front side. The "airborne" shirt has two outer pockets on the lower part of the back, while the "ground forces" shirt has only one (inside) pocket there.

    The trousers are also different, the para trousers has more pockets.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:48 pm

    Tamas,

    Whoa!! I never knew that! Now I have to find myself a para version because all I have is the standard infantry type. And like Gilles, mine has an Airborne badge on it.

    AH!! Now looking more closely at the trousers I see it has at least one leg pocket (probably two). I checked and my 1972 dated trousers only have 1 pocket. This is not a difference between vz.60 to vz.75?

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    Post by joni firpo on Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:47 am

    Hi Steve. As I remember the para trousers do have different special pockets. I'll check it tomorrow in the museum's depot if I have free time - and send a report to the topic.

    I don't know where you bought your czech para suits, but I'm sure there were dealers who thought if they "upgarde" a common infantry suit with para badges they can sell it for higher price.

    Cheers! Tamas
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    Post by joni firpo on Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:51 am

    Friends! I checked my sources (the book Gilles noted, a czechoslovakian uniform regulation from 1980 and an original para uniform) and found the followings:

    The regulation makes clearly difference between the "grounf forces" and "paratroops" M1960 combat uniforms. The latter is designated: "Polní stejnokroj 60 pro vojáky v záládní sluzbe vysadkového vojska." However theb "para" uniform consisted only shirt+trousers (and the reversible beret of course), but was worn in wintertime with the same M1960 coat as the "ground forces" uniform.

    The main differences were:

    shirt: on the para shirt there aren't internal lower pockets, but two "cargo" (outer) pockets on the backside.

    trousers: on the para trousers we can find thigh-pockets on both legs (while on the ground forces trousers only on one leg) and a special pocket behind the right-hand side thigh-pocket. The opening of this special pocket is clearly seen on the picture of the noted picture of the "Vysadkari a prukumnicí" book. I'm not sure however what was stored inside that special pocket?

    Anyway, it shows me if you want to have a czechoslovakian para uniform in your collection, you must be careful and you don't need to accept a "ground forces" shirt with added badge.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:14 pm

    Thanks for the follow up information, Tamas! Now I will have to search high and low to find this special para version because I've only ever seen the infantry type.

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    Post by joni firpo on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:45 pm

    http://forum.csla.cz/forums/thread/614.aspx

    Here's a link to a czech forum of the para uniform. The special pocket on the right leg was for the assault knife.
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    Post by joni firpo on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:46 pm

    Para with full equipment:

    http://www.csla.cz/vystroj/vysadkari.htm
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:31 pm

    Wow! I have never seen an example of either the jacket or trousers. I wonder how many blurry photos on eBay hid their true form?

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    Post by koalorka on Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:26 pm

    FYI, the patch belongs to the 5. výsadková průzkumná rota which translates to the "5th Airborne Reconnaissance Company" of the 22nd Para Regiment and this particular style of badge is the third model, worn between 1988-1992 (distinguished by the parachute being sown over an oval green background as opposed to white of the earlier patch). That's it for trivia for now. Very Happy

    But I agree, the combination is incorrect, the paras wore a distinct cut of uniform.
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    Post by koalorka on Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:09 pm

    Here's the parachutist jacket:

    Some Czech camo - Page 2 1532592258

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    Post by joni firpo on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:03 am

    Yes, that's it! Do you have the matching trousers also? Great stuff!
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:19 pm

    I wonder if it is possible they ran out of the special version and issued standard versions? My standard jacket has the same badge as the real one above. I know anybody could put that badge on, but it could also be original.

    In any case, I am REALLY interested in finding one of these specialized airborne uniforms. My Czech collection cries out in pain every day that goes by without one Very Happy

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    Post by koalorka on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:07 pm

    Do you think they also printed this paratrooper jacket in the vz. 60 Mlok pattern?
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    Post by koalorka on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:51 pm

    And since we're on the topic of airborne uniforms, I thought you might like this:

    Some Czech camo - Page 2 1518317435

    Some Czech camo - Page 2 15183174351
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:33 am

    Ack!! This is only the second Sumpf pattern smock I've ever seen! Gilles has the other. Congratulations!!

    There is a specialized Mlok para jacket, but it isn't the same as the Needles (Rain) type. For one it has an elasticized waist and hem. Other details I'd have to check for.

    What is the date of your Needles (Rain) para jacket?

    Oh, and I found some notes from another collector (lost the reference as to who!) that states, categorically, that paratroopers wore the special para and infantry versions. Both jackets and trousers. This was simply due to logistics. However, it appears infantry didn't wear the special para versions.

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    Post by koalorka on Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:42 pm

    Unfortunately, it's not mine. But it might be if I convince the owner. Any ideas on what would be a competitive offer?

    The best way to confirm if the paras wore the regular Armada jacket would be a photo, I'll dig around.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:09 pm

    Value is difficult to peg. I'd say $400 is a decent place to start, but I could see it going for $800 if two top end collectors fought over it on eBay *or* a top end collector didn't want to mess around. I know I'd not hesitate to spend $800 on one in that condition if I had not made any big purchases recently. Unfortunately for me, I always seem to be making big purchases Sad

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    Post by vonstuck on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:33 pm

    Hello
    I don't remember where I have found mine jacket
    For the set with German jumpwing and the jacket and beret, I have found it in my city
    One of my reversble pattern is also find in my town
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    Post by drmatz on Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:49 pm

    beautiful smock raff, i hope you'll be able to get it.

    i have this trousers in my collection, so according to tamas, this would be the para version?
    sorry i don't have a more close up photo of the pants.

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    Post by koalorka on Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:53 pm

    I'm not sure if those are the para pants. According to the link Tamas posted, they would have to have a small horizontal opening under the rear pocket for the barrel of the vz. 58 rifle. I can't tell from your photo. The long jacket is the so-called "kongo" variety.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:09 am

    I think this might just be a date related variant. I checked my collection and I have:

    1. 2x Cargo pocket dated 1962
    2. 1x Cargo pocket dated 1972

    There are no other significant differences between these two types. Both have flapped slash hand pockets and the small buttoned "watch" pocket on the right side.

    Steve

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