90 Pattern?

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    Eaglehurst
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Eaglehurst on Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:25 pm

    Agree with both the previous comments. 53,60 and 68 pattern mostly have said descriptions on their labels. Windproofs and combat clothing from early 80s to mid nineties mostly do not.

    I think the 84/85/86, 68/85, 90/94, and many other of the various years I have heard to describe clothing are more I think an effort to communicate what the heck it is you have. Along the way folk have interpreted this as colour of DPM fabric or year of introduction rather than the actual issue design.

    Jon from the Forces 80 site dropped me a note to say he was aware of some inaccuracies that he just had not the time to remedy, but also added that if someone has a better way of describing the various issues he was interested to hear.

    Suggestions welcome...

    Gulf91
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:34 pm

    Eaglehurst wrote:Agree with both the previous comments. 53,60 and 68 pattern mostly have said descriptions on their labels. Windproofs and combat clothing from early 80s to mid nineties mostly do not.

    I think the 84/85/86, 68/85, 90/94, and many other of the various years I have heard to describe clothing are more I think an effort to communicate what the heck it is you have. Along the way folk have interpreted this a colour of DPM fabric or year of introduction rather than the actual issue design.

    Jon from the Forces 80 site dropped me a note to say he was aware of some inaccuracies that he just had not the time to remedy, but also added that if someone has a better way of describing the various issues he was interested to hear.

    Suggestions welcome...

    Jon has got it pretty much spot on regarding the various descriptions but where he(and others) are getting obsessive is with describing the actual DPM material itself by colour etc as x,y,z pattern-It hasnt or never has had a pattern it is simply Temperate DPM(the actual PATTERN designation refers to the item of clothing and has nothing at all to do with the DPM itself)-the colour differences are merely down to different manufacturers-material is made/dyed or whatever happens in lengths so can vary quite a lot from batch to batch colour wise etc.

    Easy Gee
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Easy Gee on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:44 pm

    Gulf91 wrote:
    Eaglehurst wrote:Agree with both the previous comments. 53,60 and 68 pattern mostly have said descriptions on their labels. Windproofs and combat clothing from early 80s to mid nineties mostly do not.

    I think the 84/85/86, 68/85, 90/94, and many other of the various years I have heard to describe clothing are more I think an effort to communicate what the heck it is you have. Along the way folk have interpreted this a colour of DPM fabric or year of introduction rather than the actual issue design.

    Jon from the Forces 80 site dropped me a note to say he was aware of some inaccuracies that he just had not the time to remedy, but also added that if someone has a better way of describing the various issues he was interested to hear.

    Suggestions welcome...

    Jon has got it pretty much spot on regarding the various descriptions but where he(and others) are getting obsessive is with describing the actual DPM material itself by colour etc as x,y,z pattern-It hasnt or never has had a pattern it is simply Temperate DPM(the actual PATTERN designation refers to the item of clothing and has nothing at all to do with the DPM itself)-the colour differences are merely down to different manufacturers-material is made/dyed or whatever happens in lengths so can vary quite a lot from batch to batch colour wise etc.



    But saying that there are very distinct differences in 60 some thing, 80 somthing, and 90 something patterns, line a 68 next to S95 HUGGGGEEEE difference, but it is Temperate all the same Razz Twisted Evil

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:57 am

    Now I have to find a P90 jacket? Damn... life's so unfair Very Happy

    Thanks for posting the pics and info. Definitely the first I've heard of this, but then again I thought I had my pre S2000 Brit collection pretty much sewn up and might not have been paying attention Wink

    Steve

    nlchmbrs

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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by nlchmbrs on Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:18 pm

    Bought a "P-90" Smock-Combat from a guy who stands Doncaster Market every Saturday. He has loads of interesting stuff. Only paid £10 for it too.

    Been interested in aquiring more Brit kit recently and had been using the Forces80 and the Crusader80 websites as a guide, so interested in what you've got to say here. It certainly explains why I'm struggling to tell P-84/85, P-94, S-95 and S-2000 apart if the actual DPM pattern (the print design, as opposed to the cut of the garment) is the same. To my eyes there seems to be an early pattern of DPM print (pre-mid 80's, with the darker borders around the swirls) and a late DPM print (post-mid 80's, with a simplified print). I've got several colour variations that just seem to be down to dyes/material/manufacturing. Happy to accept that I might be wrong, just my personal observations.

    Gulf91
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:50 pm

    I've got several colour variations that just seem to be down to dyes/material/manufacturing. Happy to accept that I might be wrong, just my personal observations.

    Spot On and common sense used. Laughing

    Gulf91
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:47 pm

    Whatever pattern it is i now have one of these(came with a load of other DPM bits(as if i need any bloody more!!!!)








    CollectinSteve
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:44 am

    So do what do we think are the actual variations? I think most of us agree that colors mean nothing as that was just manufacturing variations. However, there are two different prints of DPM shapes; dots and no dots. Look around the edges of the black and you'll see what I mean.

    Using age old collector terms, coupled with info here, I'm going to kick out this list as the suggested types of the basic uniform:

    P1960
    P68
    P84 (with floppy cornered pockets)
    P90 (with box cornered pockets)
    P94 (experimental heavy cotton with vertical zips)
    S95
    S2000

    I'm sure I'm missing some post S95 types in there, because I get really confused by them! Especially Desert which involves something like 4 or 5 variations (flat buttons, Canadian buttons, epaulette positions, etc.).

    Then there's the tropicals, windproofs, paras, winter stuff... yeah, lots of Brit kit to collect!

    Steve

    Gulf91
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:54 am

    P1960
    P68
    P84 (with floppy cornered pockets)
    P90 (with box cornered pockets)
    P94 (experimental heavy cotton with vertical zips)
    S95
    S2000

    That seems like a very basic common sense,easy to understand list with no complications Wink

    Duncan McLain
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Duncan McLain on Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:09 am

    P60
    P68
    P84 horn pockets
    P85 (or early P85) flagging pockets
    P90 (or later P85) safety pockets
    P94 (experimental heavy cotton with vertical zips - first smock with express zips)
    S95 rip-stop jacket
    S2000 no rip-stop jacket
    S2005 smock with integral hood

    Material of L/W uniforms between S95, S2000 and S2005 is very different.

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:58 pm

    Duncan,

    I'm confused by your pocket terminology. What are the differences between:

    Horn
    Flagging
    Safety

    What we really need is a single dictionary of uniform features first Smile It's always difficult talking about manufacturing differences that don't have easily recognized names.

    Steve

    Gulf91
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:00 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Duncan,

    I'm confused by your pocket terminology. What are the differences between:

    Horn
    Flagging
    Safety

    What we really need is a single dictionary of uniform features first Smile It's always difficult talking about manufacturing differences that don't have easily recognized names.

    Steve

    Me aswell hence why i liked your simple no frills list earlier Very Happy Very Happy

    Duncan McLain
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    Re: 90 Pattern?

    Post by Duncan McLain on Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:13 pm

    It's very simply:

    - Horn pockets have a characteristic "horns" on the lower sides.
    - Flagging pockets not have safety clasp like later patterns and this pockets are very puffy.
    - safety pockets have this clasp and looks like pockets with S95 patern.

    I don't have acces to my pics base bacause now i writing in laptop but when i back to home i give some pics this pockets.

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