Para smock 1950s

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    koalorka
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:21 pm

    Ronny, you will notice I have virtually the same smock with the Navy markings (ZM-FN) and mine is equipped with a beaver-tail flap. Maybe they made 2 series and later removed this feature? Your copy doesn't appear to be modified at all. Maybe we'll never find out.

    saltefanden
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:54 pm

    Nah, you're probably right as always Koalorka.

    Why would there be multiple versions within the same branch of Belgian defence, in such a short time?

    Someone with enough patience and time has painstakingly removed the tail from my smock without leaving forensic evidence. And with that removed the mint-ness from my smock and any dreams of world domination that came with it!

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:01 pm

    I'm actually not so sure of it Ronny, where the flap would normally be attached on your smock, you would see a rectangular stitch pattern at the bottom edge. Someone would have to go to a lot of trouble to remove every last remaining thread...

    saltefanden
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:58 pm

    Well, I'm not so sure.

    I've seen second hand-shops 'de-milling' jackets before, to make them less butch and more fashionable, and there's a good chance this is what happened here.

    And again, talking second hand shops and the old 'one man's trash, another man's treasure', its funny how prices go. The shop where I got the mint-ish navy smock at for 29 USD, was selling well-worn, faded and not very clean smelling, 90's German Flecktarn smocks for 110 USD...

    Steve mentioned that 1960's smocks in jigsaw-pattern were rare. I've got 3, all from eBay and bought for no more than 60 USD from the US of A.
    But where did the inspiration for the pattern come from?

    Ochre or mustard yellow, blue-ish green and chocolate brown colours outlined with black and hints of white, does not sound like a recipe for succes.
    Look at most threads on airsoft- or other camo fora, and the Belgian jigsaw is the butt of many jokes and ridicule. But many pictures does not seem to support the laughter as woodland, marsh and rocky regions all seem to accommodate the pattern quite well.

    Which lineage does the jigsaw spring from? M1929 tele mimetico?
    Is it the first real attempt at a universal camo, since Belgium had a lot of interest spheres around the world when this pattern was introduced, from Europe to Africa?

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:38 pm

    About the lack of beavertail... are there 6 snaps on the front? If there aren't, then for sure there was no beavertail on the smock. If there were, then there should be a beavertail. If there are no signs of one being there, perhaps it was mistakenly left off and that's possibly why it was surplussed unused?

    The 1960s Jigsaw stuff is rare relative to most other Jigsaw items. It's far easier to get a 1958 jacket or 1970s smock than it is to get a 1960s smock. But for sure they are out there (I have two, IIRC).

    I have no idea what inspired Jigsaw. I agree that it is a nearly useless camouflage pattern for most areas. But I think it is one of the coolest of the "old school" patterns. Since fashion is an important part of a military uniform, I suspect it has been retained all these years because of tradition and looking distinctly different than other countries.

    Steve

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    Navy Para Smock 1950s.

    Post by Sgt P. on Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:20 pm

    Guys when it rains it pours. I also have one of the Navy pullover half/zip smocks in the Moon & Balls pattern.
    Steve G. That diagram for determining the differance between the Brushstroke & Moon & Balls pattern is pretty cool. Yup the "bite marks" really pop out. Mine is also dated 1955, size 48/56, Left side of tag is ZM/FN and it came with a mint hood. Now all I need to find is a pair of pants with dates close to my smock.

    This item came from Herman De Prins many years ago. I was buying the used Brushstroke pants with repairs for around $10 to $15 from a retired Green Beret who had a surplus shop down in Southern Vermont. Sadly he kept most of the Moon & Ball and Brushstroke smocks to sell to a collector market down in Boston, MA. How I wish that he would have sold me one of each.

    I also have a Belgian Brushstroke ABL 1975 pull over half smock mfg by Mickielsens Sterckx. It is a size 3. Sadly this smock has shiny silver pocket buttons which I believe is possibly stainless steel. No hood or attatchment points on the collar of the smock. Has a beavertail flap and riri metal zipper. Anyone have any info on this smock? I will try to google it and see what comes up. Sadly I am not that good at posting photos on the forums. Gotta have Danilo Matz give me some lessons. Bruce

    saltefanden
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by saltefanden on Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:09 am

    Hey Bruce, welcome to the ZM/FN clan.

    Did you, like me, have it laying around unaware of its navy origin and the difference to ABL smocks until this thread (and Steve especially) shed some light on the subject? That's why it's great being part of this forum!

    Does the hood on your smock have holes by the ears cut out, like the smock shown earlier in this thread? My hood does not and I'm not sure my smock was originally 'born' with it, though colors and fabric match.

    But that's a lot of navy jump smocks popping up all of a sudden, let's hope it won't depreciate the value

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Sgt P. on Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:47 am

    Ron,
    Yeah I totally missed that day at the Belgian smock class. Wink Thanks Steve for the info. I am learning something new every day. I am working towards a Belgian Jigsaw para smock. Just have to put some things in order first! My hood is the "plain Jane" Moon & Balls model, no holes at all in the hoodie. Cool Bruce

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:15 am

    I think you guys should give me your navy variants. I don't think you deserve them because you haven't been looking for years like I have Very Happy

    Steve

    koalorka
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:06 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:I think you guys should give me your navy variants. I don't think you deserve them because you haven't been looking for years like I have Very Happy

    Steve

    Years of looking? With your connections?!

    There was an auction that concluded 2 days ago for a minty example, this time for a far more reasonable $90.

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Sgt P. on Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:19 pm

    Steve,
    I picked up these Belgian smocks/pants like over 10 years ago. I am waiting for more! I would enjoy seeing your collection someday when me & the Mrs totally retire. Besides she has to go visit her Mother up in Maine soon! Cool
    Bruce

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:18 pm

    Yeah, I haven't been lucky. Although I got about 2 dozen of these direct from the warehouse, the warehouse was Army and therefore none were Navy. I've seen a couple on eBay over the years, but the prices were "stupid" and I passed. I've not really been looking all that hard lately so I missed that one for $90. A reasonable price for it, indeed.

    I hope nobody wants to come see my collection for at least another year. It's a disaster at the moment. My long term storage project has stalled out because it's at the tail end of a major house redo. I SHOULD be able to do more with it this winter.

    Steve

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Sgt P. on Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:29 pm

    Steve, Good luck with the house project. We looked at a log home up in Swanville. It needed a total renovation and the bad part was that is sat above a turkey farm. PPPP-UUUUUU! The smell was worse than any dairy farm in Vermont. We passed on it. tongue Bruce

    koalorka
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:57 am

    I think I may have just scored the hand-painted Denison smock. What is the main distinguishing feature? Are they marked for the ABL?

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:31 pm

    Yes, marked ABL. If there is no tag then look for the three buttons to close the top.

    Steve

    koalorka
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:50 pm

    It is now inbound to my camo bunker.

    And whoever said these things were common? This is the first one I've ever come across save the picture on Camopedia, which is your private smock Steve. I didn't even spend too much on it because I bet few bidders even knew what it was, thinking more likely that it was some kind of Denison repro.

    Gulf91
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:04 pm

    They do appear occasionally on Ebay UK but go for silly money as they are 99.9% described as some rare WW2 version Sad

    koalorka
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:54 pm

    I've been monitoring the UK eBay for months, haven't seen one, just some Pattern 59 and reproduction Denisons.

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:16 am

    When i say occasionally i would say around 1 per year.

    Regarding 59 patts,there seems to have been an increase of them on Ebay lately.

    koalorka
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:31 am

    Fair enough. A lot of tan smocks going around lately. I would say 50% of the Pattern 59 smocks that appear are repros from the 1970s. It's amazing what some people end up spending for these.

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:14 pm

    And it is here!












    saltefanden
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by saltefanden on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:22 pm

    Waaauuwwwh!

    Must - keep - looking - closer - and - harder - on - eBay!

    Must - keep - looking - closer - and - harder - on - eBay!

    Must - keep- looking.....

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:07 am

    That's a really, really nice example. Congrats!

    Steve

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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by koalorka on Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:10 am

    Now to complete the Belgian lineage with a Korean smock.

    Thus far my search has only yielded one smock, located in a military museum in Belgium.

    saltefanden
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    Re: Para smock 1950s

    Post by saltefanden on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:05 pm

    Are you putting together an away team for Belgium, Raff?

    A quick little heist and your collection would be complete! Laughing

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