Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

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    CollectinSteve
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    Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:13 am

    Sometimes incorrectly called "Bolivian", this is an experimental Spanish Army camo uniform worn by Army Paraciadistas (2nd Bandera?) and Legion soldiers.





    There are two types of cloth; heavy cotton twill, light cotton loose weave (light pictured above). I have three of these uniforms, one heavy and two light. One of the light ones has embroidered Legion emblems on the epaulettes.

    It's been a while since I've researched the date of use on this uniform, but IIRC it was used very late 1970s or very early 1980s.

    Got beat out on the matching swallow tail hat today... $65... ouch!

    Steve

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by Solideo on Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:01 am

    It would be great if you post a picture of that embroides epaulette with Legion´s emblem.

    Thanks Steve

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:44 pm

    Your wish is my command Very Happy





    The badges have no doubt been added by a collector. The uniform itself is unissued. There are no markings on the inside, unlike my two Paraciadista versions.

    Also, here is a commercial version. It is very poorly made.



    Enjoy!

    Steve

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by bond007a1 on Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:26 pm

    WOW...well now....there is a Spanish uniform that I DEFINATELY am missing!!!! that is some great looking stuff there Steve...are those patches blue or a green...it looks blue..but the other pic...they look like a light green?


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    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:35 pm

    Sorry... missed the question until now! Those are standard Sarga colored badges. They do look a bit more blue in the picture than they are in real life.

    BTW, Solideo and I have discussed the Legion version at great depth in email. We have both concluded that the Legion version was not an issued item. Until evidence comes to light to prove us wrong, the suspicion is that it was either a speculative piece made for the Legion to evaluate or was part of an official VERY small scale trial. I personally think there is no reasonable chance that this is a commercial item since at the time such things were unheard of within Spain. The badging on it, although correct, was almost definitely added by a collector after the fact.

    Steve

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by Solideo on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:51 pm

    Sorry Steve, I still think Legion uniform has too many incorrections in design to be official, even for a trial.

    I wanted to give you like a present a hat, but I think there is not such a big size all the world around Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:25 pm

    Oh, I agree with you that it isn't official. The problems you pointed out are enough to convince me of this. I think I should define my terms:

    Trial item - officially used by members of a military to determine if they want to purchase more. This is usually started by the military asking for a certain number to actually use.

    Sample item - never officially used by members of a military, perhaps not even requested by them. Instead, a factory decides "maybe we can tempt the military into purchasing something from us". Or perhaps the factory made something for a Trial, but it was rejected and never used for it.

    It is a very thin line between the two, for sure. Whatever the case is, I think the chances are zero that the "Legion" uniform itself is purely commercial because it is 100% identical (except for the epaulettes) to the legitimate Paracaidista version. I also don't think some collector paid to have the epaulettes embroidered, but that is possible no matter how unlikely.

    Steve

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by Solideo on Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:26 am

    Well defined. You Know I am so purist in Legion items and that my way of thinking is just to be objetive in all.

    Recently talkint to a good Spanish Legion collector, he told me that when he opened his web didn´t know how to define some items and he "invented" a definition for them. Actually everybody defines with that erroneus name what he once said, because there were no written references of that before.

    When I find any doubt in my items I prefer just to say "Probably or unknown".

    Cheers Steven (the non bastard), although Panzer has won the definition of "saint Steven" transfering you those mags.

    With this explanation your hat has been reduced 2 sizes at least Laughing

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by panzerwerk on Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:24 am

    Thanks Guys , for me Its what collecting is all about Steve G has helped me out in the past , so I am more then happy to return the favor .
    And he's right , dont let this random act of kindness fool anyone , I am A Bastard Laughing Laughing

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    Re: Rare Spanish fleck camo uniform

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:30 pm

    Hehe Smile

    Yes, it is very true that we collectors do not have a standard dictionary of terms. Not even in a single language! Things become more confused with foreign languages because translations are sometimes difficult.

    One problem is non-standard items are often not documented. Is it a "trial", is it a "sample", is it "commercial, but unofficially used", when does something become "standard, but not official"???? Many questions, no easy answers.

    A good example of this...

    A friend of mine in the Belgian Para/Commandos requested US Woodland uniforms from me. The reason? Belgian issued uniforms are very expensive if damaged and they must always maintain a certain number of uniforms. Therefore, the Belgian soldiers do not like using them for dirty/hazardous work. So I sent a couple HUNDRED US Woodland jackets and trousers to Belgium. If someone visited the base while they were doing dirty/hazardous work that visitor might conclude "the Belgians wear US Woodland uniforms!". This is false. The person may instead think "the Belgians unofficially use US Woodland uniforms!". This is true for that one unit, but it isn't true for the Belgian Para/Commandos or the entire Belgian Army.

    So I am possibly responsible for causing a collector 10 years from now to be very, very confused when he finds a US Woodland uniform in a Belgian warehouse Very Happy

    Steve

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