Belgian copy of Brit '37 Pattern webbing

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    Post by Bolty717 on Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:51 am

    Found this on TradeMe a NZ auction site. last picture has the ABL print.

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/antiques-collectables/militaria/wwii-earlier/auction-963480125.htm
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    Post by Gulf91 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:25 pm

    Just bought a nice E Tool with carrier.

    The carrier is a US 1944 dated one re issued and fitted with Belgian belt hanger. The tool itself is unstamped and the head was painted matt black and fitted with some form of Biohazard stickers!!!!

    Have removed the stickers and they removed the paint underneath to see its in its life had at least 2 different green repaints(fancy trying to remove all the matt black paint).

    Most worryingly is half of the handle has been taped up with what looks like black pvc insulating tape and am itching to remove it but am guessing its there for a reason,to cover up some damage maybe?
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    Post by Gulf91 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:04 pm

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF0188_zpsuxpyhfjj

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF0190_zpswskrtoe7

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF0191_zpsziqgbj4r

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF0187_zpsjhroxgfy

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF0189_zpsbgolozk4
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    Post by thunderchild on Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:40 am

    what a great thread ,richard i too can not see the E tool carrier in the first kit picture
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    Post by Antarmike on Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:25 pm

    Hi, I have just joined.  I am Mike from Lincolnshire UK.

    Several years ago I bought A Minerva Land Rover.  It had been with the ABL from 1952 to 1995.

    I have started collecting kit covering that period.  When I am allowed to start posting Pictures (7 Days)  I will put some of it up.

    Got several HiPower Pouches, Including a Gd/Rw dark blue one, (but only one HiPower to go in them).

    I have a FN FALO Chest rig, but it does not exactly match the only photo I have seen of a soldier carrying a FALO.   Does not have centre pouches so it is easier to lie prone, than the one in the photo. So four FAl pouches on the chest rig, not 6.

    I have several sets of webbing, (two E-tool holders at present,) Various pouches, M51 Gas mask, Large and small packs.  Some ABL some Zm/Fn, and other odds and sodds.  I will need help identifying a few items that I believe may be ABL but use/purpose or even confirming that they are Belgian  is beyond my present knowledge.

    Anyhow enough for now, when I have been a member long enough to be able to put links to photo sharing sites, I will start to show you what I have got, and start asking questions.

    Got a few deacts too, A HiPower, a Fal (but not ABL although the grips are) A couple of Vignerons, a Sten, and a couple of FN-49's,  Oh and a Blindicide.   I want to pick brains about what pouches if any the ABL had to carry Energa rifle grenades and Blindicide Rockets.

    Post again soon, pictures will follow. Including a British made pack stamped MEC 1944 and modified and restamped ABL 1952 although the stamps take some real deciphering>
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:12 pm

    Some of my 37 pattern stuff (and other not strictly 37 Pattern but similar construction and era)
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4726_zpsq4v0fcuq
    A couple of Hi Power Holsters to get started.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4861_zpsxio2n12t
    Chest rig (for FALO but I don't own one so presented with a C type FAL Bayonet)
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4862_zps3uxicaxu
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4863_zps1i39it6i
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4864_zpsisr9ihal
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4865_zpslvbr7nwa
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4866_zpsrdfirmbp
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4867_zpswh0x1ydp
    Of all my HiPower Holsters this is the only one with a strap and press fastener for the spare magazine
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4868_zps8sdwr1y3
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4869_zpsjyydr1fx
    SAFN and an AFN
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4870_zpsy4tacfh0
    The SAFN,
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4872_zpslfikvaoo
    AFN and bayonet. (still trying to find a correct frog for this.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4874_zpsjway2gdg
    Back of webbing I use for Vigneron.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4875_zpszhladrh4
    With M1 Vigneron
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4876_zpsc79fnmw9
    M1 & M2
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4877_zpsqkkcgfp5
    Mi has peep hole, M2 has notch
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4878_zpshg7eiams
    M1 has unprotected fore sight, Mr has a hood.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4879_zpsmnvayfxh
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4880_zpsfsz74cpo
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4888_zpse7qjcv5i
    Another E Tool pouch awaiting a webbing set.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4889_zps7fdpc5sf
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4890_zpsd2ukioft

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    Post by Wolverine on Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:26 pm

    That is some great Belgian kit and weapons!
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:53 pm

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4897_zpspsncsw0b
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4898_zps2p6soi2b
    Couple of M51 gasmasks
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4899_zpsq4fh0jyx
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4901_zpsvleqkmkr
    Gd/Rw Holster
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4902_zpsy5lfauzo
    Various packs
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4905_zpsg1h0c9j9
    Some dog tags
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4906_zpsvqqtv4l5
    Later I know, Chemical Agent testing kit (sadly no contents!)
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:39 pm

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4907_zpsywfr2akv
    Believe this to be a reissue of Btritish First Aid kit.

    Is it possibly belgian (I bought it as such) and do the numbers etc mean anything to anyone?

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4908_zpsmsuvxgyz
    Navy Blue pack
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4909_zpsoefmkavd
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4910_zpswfxatsrw
    Some jack Knives
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4911_zpszvrb0vlr
    Some more Jack Knives. Sp far I have 6 knives all 1953 and all by different manufacturers.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4912_zpshxnbqb21
    Blieve this to be a reissue of British Kit Has MEC stampp 1944? But also has 1953 stamp I presume to be Belgian.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4913_zpscoh3qyun
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4914_zpslcgqbtlk
    Various side loops have been sewn on, These use diffeentbhread to the rest of the sewing on the pack.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4915_zpsy5w0erlpKhaki navy pack
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4916_zps0sx8zs9nVery similar pack but ABL


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    Post by Wolverine on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:54 pm

    The small pack in blue webbing is Belgian navy (FN/ZM).

    The large pack with the MvO stamp is Dutch. The early postwar Dutch webbing included lots of surplus WE 37, and then the Dutch began to make their own M52 version in green (see the posts on Dutch webbing in the Netherlands section). It is possible to find M52 components that are actually heavily blancoed original WE 37 pieces (packs, pack straps, and basic pouches).

    That NBC case is new to me, although I have a very similar ABL shell dressing carrier. Nice clasp knives too!
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:59 pm

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4917_zpsbyckh8wn
    Some pouches and some Energa training grenades. (two British? one Belgian?) I carry them in these pouches just to protect them, but I know the Energas would not be carried in these. Has anyone any info how ABL carried the Energa grenades?
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4918_zpsanfphtac
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4919_zpsmftj9aho
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:01 pm

    Wolverine wrote:The small pack in blue webbing is Belgian navy (FN/ZM).

    The large pack with the MvO stamp is Dutch. The early postwar Dutch webbing included lots of surplus WE 37, and then the Dutch began to make their own M52 version in green (see the posts on Dutch webbing in the Netherlands section). It is possible to find M52 components that are actually heavily blancoed original WE 37 pieces (packs, pack straps, and basic pouches).

    That NBC case is new to me, although I have a very similar ABL shell dressing carrier. Nice clasp knives too!
    Thanks for the info on the Dutch bag, Will loose that one from the collection!
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:12 pm

    ABL Demolition Kit.  Believe to be an American kit adopted by the Belgians.  The Instructions and ready reckoner are translated into dual French & Dutch, but many of the tools are marked USA and the instructions are based on using the US M112 Demolition charge.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4920_zpsoo60tytu
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4921_zpsktfts5bh
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4922_zpsgrvwxruu
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4923_zpsaqnbpaoc


    Last edited by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Antarmike on Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:37 pm

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF4929_zpsnjbavedp
    Oh and a FAL,  Sadly not Belgian, but the fore grip, Pistol Grip and Butt are off an ABL FAL

    Magazine loader is genuine ABL.
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    Post by Wolverine on Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:38 am

    Antarmike wrote:
    Wolverine wrote:The small pack in blue webbing is Belgian navy (FN/ZM).

    The large pack with the MvO stamp is Dutch. The early postwar Dutch webbing included lots of surplus WE 37, and then the Dutch began to make their own M52 version in green (see the posts on Dutch webbing in the Netherlands section). It is possible to find M52 components that are actually heavily blancoed original WE 37 pieces (packs, pack straps, and basic pouches).

    That NBC case is new to me, although I have a very similar ABL shell dressing carrier. Nice clasp knives too!
    Thanks for the info on the Dutch bag,  Will loose that one from the collection!

    Yes, you could that, but the right thing to do would be to collect more Dutch webbing! Very Happy
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    Post by Antarmike on Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:50 am

    I already have a few bits (sold to me wrongly described on Ebay, so I have FN 7.62 cleaning rod set, a water bottle and canteen similar to M71 item but marked KL , a Royal Netherlands Air Force trench coat, .... No If I add to collection it will be items that will cross over between UK kit and Belgian kit.

    I have a cuple of 66 mm Laws lined up, One definitely British, looking at an Old spec deactivated Uzi but really want an FN licenced Uzi, and I have a possible old spec MAG, but I have to win the lottery or sell a kidney for that one.....
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    Post by Gulf91 on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:31 pm

    Antarmike wrote:I already have a few bits (sold to me wrongly described on Ebay, so I have FN 7.62 cleaning rod set, a water bottle and canteen similar to M71 item but marked KL , a Royal Netherlands Air Force trench coat, ....  No If I add to collection it will be items that will cross over between UK kit and Belgian kit.

    I have  a cuple of 66 mm Laws lined up, One definitely British,  looking at an Old spec deactivated Uzi but really want an FN licenced Uzi, and I have a possible old spec MAG, but I have to win the lottery or sell a kidney for that one.....

    Thought you had already won the Lottery Mike given all the amazing stuff you have,love it.
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    Post by Wolverine on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:48 pm

    Here is a picture of the food carrier, along with the pack.
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 Thermo10
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 Thermo11
    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 Thermo12
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    Post by Antarmike on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:53 pm

    Thanks for photo, Do I assume it is thermos flask type construction?
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    Post by Wolverine on Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:13 pm

    Yes, it is a vacuum type design. At some point, I will take comparison photos with a Second World War example.

    Here is a link to the twin carrier, also copied from the British type:

    http://iacmc.forumotion.com/t9259-abl-ration-carrier
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    Post by Antarmike on Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:35 pm

    There is a british type on Ebay at present I believe

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201556639151?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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    Post by Wolverine on Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:14 pm

    Antarmike wrote:There is a british type on Ebay at present I believe

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201556639151?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    I can't say for sure, but that one looks to be taller than the wartime style. It could be a postwar type?
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    Post by Antarmike on Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:24 pm

    I thought I had an early dated canteen set cup, so I have been rooting through some stuff and found it.  The date and maker is on the steel handle, not where it normally is on the aluminium cup itself.

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 DSCF5061_zps4x6q6eyz
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    Post by Antarmike on Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:36 pm

    As we know the US set up a shop to make kit for the US army in Belgium, and that is how Belgium adopted US pattern Canteen sets.  I should have bought this when I saw it.  A Belgian made  cup for the Americans, made on the same machinery that would later make cups for the ABL.

    Belgian copy of  Brit '37 Pattern webbing - Page 3 Us%20canteen_zpsrsoftamp
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    Post by Wolverine on Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:10 pm

    Nice cups - but US cups will not fit Belgian canteens, and vice versa.

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