Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

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    parafal
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    Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by parafal on Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:13 am

    I bought this Zelt in Colorado over 15 years ago , it also came with the matching bag with the poles and pegs



    I will have to spread it out on the lawn or somewhere to get a full pic of it and the reverse side of it as well.
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:01 pm

    One of my favorites! There was a huge load of them that came into the US about 15+ years (I got my first couple back then), then it dried up. Recently I've seen lots on German eBay, but not so much now as a year or two ago.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by parafal on Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:19 pm

    I wish i could get my hands on the "SS smocks" made out of Tarnmuster for "A Bridge Too Far"
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by vonstuck on Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:09 pm





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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:45 pm

    I had one of those smocks a while ago. At least I think it is the same type used in the movie A Bridge Too Far. Sold for $68 in 2007. Here are pics.

    Nice hat Gilles! A nice quality hat.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:02 am

    I have a 4 pocket tunic made of that stuff-no idea who made it or where it was used,it came along with some other uniforms around 10+ years ago.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri May 24, 2013 12:40 pm

    Hidden away for around 10 years or so and well happy to have found it again after all those years!!!











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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by 2/1kiwi on Sat May 25, 2013 5:54 am

    I have a helmet cover in the same pattern...
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat May 25, 2013 6:47 pm

    The helmet covers were field made and not uncommon during the 1960s. I've seen pictures of them in use well after that, but of course not as frequently.

    Gulf, that's a really nice one! Some work went into making that. No idea why, though. Hopefully not to fool unsuspecting collectors.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun May 26, 2013 5:25 am

    Thanks Steve,yep,pretty well made and all the buttons are original WW2 ones.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by fez on Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:20 pm

    Here is my smock Very Happy 

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:27 pm

    Just bought 2 Zelts in their carrying bags and 1 set of pegs and poles also in their carrying bag.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:13 pm

    My smock,also have the helmet cover that came with it somewhere but at the moment cannot find it.







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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:57 am

    Wow! Yours has seen a lot of wear as a smock. The arm rank makes me think that a reenactor used this back in the old days before quality kit was available.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:35 pm

    Found the helmet cover.










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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:36 pm






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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by henrik_clausen on Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:41 am

    Hi,

    An interesting camouflage pattern - note two things:

    - The pattern is reversible - like the Waffen-SS patterns from WW2

    - The different parts of the pattern is printed with rollers with different diameters (like the Leibermuster pattern). It could be interesting to view the pattern with an IR device - it probably has some very good IR properties.

    Best regards
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by henrik_clausen on Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:18 pm

    Hi,

    IR photo of the "Amoebentarn" (summer side):


    Best regards
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by saltefanden on Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:41 pm

    Hej Henrik,

    I like these Zeltbahns as much as anybody, their shape, the several layers of printing and the two reversible, seasonal sides especially!

    But bother; I never understood the principles of IR properties in camouflaged fabrics or uniforms.
    Is it to remove or lessen the contrasts in regards to the background, while keeping up the disruptive effect of the camouflage print, or is it simply to absorb as much of the IR waves in that end of the spectrum?
    In the latter case, and from your excellent photo, it would seem black is a bad idea to include in a pattern. Thank you in advance!
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:45 am

    Thanks for the pics of the helmet cover! Not bad for what appears to be a quick and dirty creation.

    Unless there's special IR treatments to camouflage there is basically no contrast when under IR observation. Which means, effectively, there's no camouflage benefit. The easiest color, and the earliest type, to make more contrasting is black embedded with carbon.

    In fact, the Germans (who first fielded IR) put carbon in their late war Leibermuster pattern. They figured it was only a matter of time before the Allies were fielding it in quantity as well. Of course they lost the war before that happened, but they were correct. Unlike with magnetic antitank mines. They invented them and were so convinced that everybody would adopt similar mines that they coated all their tanks with a concrete mixture (Zimmerit) to defeat the mines. By the end of the war they stopped bothering since a) for 2 years nobody had developed their own and b) they were losing the war and couldn't afford to waste resources and time on it like they used to.

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by loski on Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:25 am

    fez wrote:Here is my smock Very Happy 

    I had one of those smocks there was what looked like an issued helmet cover for the german M1 shaped helmet with it that I bought in the 80,s and sold it on, In hindsight its one of the things I wish I had kept

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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by henrik_clausen on Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:35 am

    Hi Ronny,

    I would think that the purpose of camouflage in the IR area is twofold:

    - The overall appearance of the uniform should be so that it doesn't stand out compared to the surroundings (eg. neither too bright nor too dark). Vegetation tends to get very bright in IR.

    - The camouflage pattern should form a disruptive pattern (like camouflage n the normal visible range of light)

    Some colours are not that easy to see under IR light - see this example of a BGS uniform - the brown parts are almost impossible to see:



    The Germans used during WW2 - as Steve writes - black carbon overprint to create a disruptive pattern in the IR range. Many Wehrmacht Zeltbahns were treated this way during the last part of the war.

    And now on to the more funny part Surprised When I was conscript in the Danish Army (1985-86) we were issued with special shoe shining cream for out boots. It was supposed to make the boots less visible in IR light - but the boots also tended to get pinkish instead of black... So of course we all bought our own (non-IR) shoecream to polish the boots...

    Best regards
    Henrik

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    IR Images

    Post by edstorey on Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:35 am

    Henrik:

    Those IR images are impressive and very helpful. Thank you for posting them.
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:26 pm

    Hej Henrik,

    Thank you (and Steve) for the quick lesson in IR properties and use in camouflage, and the very illustrative pictures!
    I had read about the German WW2 IR devices (was it called Vampir?) and the addition of carbon to the Leibermuster pattern print, but the magnetic mine-angle was new to me, as was the story of the 'pink' Danish boots! Very Happy
    I had not gained much from the explanation offered in Dr. Borsarello's older works, and only remember seeing pictures on other forums, or discussion pages, where IR had clearly not been a consideration in making a uniform system, and the soldiers stand out very distinctly.
    You've made it much more clear in a very simple way!
    TAK!!
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    Re: Bundeswehr Tarnmuster Zelt

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:50 am

    Henrik's story about the shoe polish is funny, but at least the military tried to help hide its soldiers at night. Other nations did the opposite. Some uniforms, especially ones with high polyester content, reflect IR wavelength instead of absorbing it. For someone with IR vision it is like shining a spotlight on someone dressed in aluminum foil at night. Obviously not very good for concealment Very Happy

    The Germans had Vampir for the Sturmgewehr 44 rifle, but in very limited numbers. The also had two different types of IR systems mounted on Panther tanks, one of which is not verified to exist. Additionally, the Germans mounted IR spot lights on halftracks in order to cover more area at longer distances than the Panthers could see with their own systems. The idea was to bath the target areas with IR light so that the Panthers could detect them better.

    Steve

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