Pattern 1959 Denison

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    koalorka
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    Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:42 pm

    Hey folks, I'm curious about the variation that occurs in post-war Pattern 1959 Denison smocks, was there any standardization with respect to colours and markings? I know they were produced for close to 2 decades and most of variance can be attributed to technological limitations and the fact that the garment was produced by a handful of shops.

    I've recently come across this mustard-coloured example, it seems the earlier models share a more tan background colour. I'm not 100% certain the label is correct however, it has no reference to the type of smock (Pattern 1959), the date of manufacturer or any UK MOD property markings (broad arrow). But the maker Cookson & Clegg is known for the later DPM uniforms.

    Are there any known replicas of the Pattern 59 smock?

    Here are the photos:





    Thanks!

    filupe
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by filupe on Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:22 pm

    Yes. Replicas of the Pattern '59 Denison do exist. I have one with a commercial clothing tag from 'Britorion' and have seen others from other companies. I believe the jackets worn by the 'Simbas' antagonists in the movie 'The Wild Geese' are the same.

    I'm no expert but the tag on this example you show looks OK.

    Gulf91
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:03 pm

    There were 3 official variations of the 59 Patt colours-dont know why but 3 distinctly different types of camo print and colours.

    The only repro i know of is the one made by Silvermans and is quite obviously not original compared to an original by the colours and prints.These regularly appear on Ebay advertised as originals and unfortunately people get sucked in and pay big money for them.Used to own one and from memory the makers label is C.W.C.S i think.

    Another variation that i have seen and not as such a repro again from memory was labelled with a maker of FRANKLINS or FRANKENSTEIN-J.L.S or similar. Around 10 years ago there was a load of them on Ebay and sold quite cheaply(regretted not buying one now).Apparently these were and overseas Middle Eastern or African contract cancelled at the last minute and were identical to issue 59patt smocks other than(again from memory) at the rear there were 3 rows of pop studs to attach the crutch flap/donkey tail as opposed to 1 row on std/issue studs.

    Sorry about the vagueness but thats all i can remember Embarassed

    Gulf91
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:04 pm

    koalorka wrote:Hey folks, I'm curious about the variation that occurs in post-war Pattern 1959 Denison smocks, was there any standardization with respect to colours and markings? I know they were produced for close to 2 decades and most of variance can be attributed to technological limitations and the fact that the garment was produced by a handful of shops.

    I've recently come across this mustard-coloured example, it seems the earlier models share a more tan background colour. I'm not 100% certain the label is correct however, it has no reference to the type of smock (Pattern 1959), the date of manufacturer or any UK MOD property markings (broad arrow). But the maker Cookson & Clegg is known for the later DPM uniforms.

    Are there any known replicas of the Pattern 59 smock?

    Here are the photos:





    Thanks!

    Very nice smock in one of the rarer,more desireable colour schemes-apparently made for Desert issue but nobody can prove this 100%.

    Gulf91
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:35 pm

    Here are the 3 official types of 59 Pattern Smocks-all 3 have seen hard service and all 3 have at some stage been tailored at the rear for a smarter appearance.

    No1-I was a bit peed to begin with this as it was bought as a 46 Pattern Smock but was then surprised to see it labelled as a 59 Pattern Shocked -never knew until i saw this that 59 Pattern smocks were made in the WW2 type camo so it must be an early one?

    Unfortunately date is unreadable but maker is B.M.C.









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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:38 pm

    2nd type-"desert" or "banana" coloured-quite hard to come by compared to the 3rd type.






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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:40 pm

    3rd type-very common with plenty available ranging like this used example to mint unissued examples(i have 4 or 5 of these).

    Not sure where the MOD logic is in that you will find some smocks dated,others not??






    koalorka
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:40 pm

    Wow, amazing collection and thanks for sharing your knowledge of the subject!

    Mine appears to be the second variant "banana", I've seen it referred to as the "Sinai" colour as well, perhaps devised in preparation for a planned deployment to the embattled Middle East at them time?

    There appears to be no standard template for the markings on the labels, every maker has their own in-house format it seems.

    That's quite a rare piece you have there in the 1st model, I didn't know such an animal even existed.


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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:47 pm

    koalorka wrote:Wow, amazing collection and thanks for sharing your knowledge of the subject!

    Mine appears to be the second variant "banana", I've seen it referred to as the "Sinai" colour as well, perhaps devised in preparation for a planned deployment to the embattled Middle East at them time?

    There appears to be no standard template for the markings on the labels, every maker has their own in-house format it seems.

    That's quite a rare piece you have there in the 1st model, I didn't know such an animal even existed.


    Not much of a collection im sure compared to some peoples but very happy that I have 1 of each type and like you,until it arrived i was quite amazed to see the 1st type labelled as a 59 pattern as until then i always thought only the WW2 and 46 pattern were in that design of cammo Very Happy Very Happy

    Guess now i need to see a 46 patt smock to compare the differences Cool

    The labels-obviously only owning 1 of the 1st and 2nd type i cannot comment on the labels but as for the 3rd type-yep,there is certainly no standardised type/design of labels even by the same manufacturers so impossible to date exactly which is a shame.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:27 pm

    Maybe we can compile a list of manufacturers for the P59 Denison, for future reference?

    Off the top of my head:

    BMC (I am told these are the most desirable)
    Cookson & Clegg Ltd.
    H.E. Textiles Ltd.
    F. Fryer & Co. Ltd.
    Windsmoor (MACC) Ltd.

    Known reproductions:
    W.H. Ltd.
    C.W.C.S. (Silverman's)
    J.S. Franklin (sold to Kenya in the 1960s, exact copy of British 3rd pattern P59).
    Smithfields

    Feel free to add to the list.

    Gulf91
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:02 pm

    koalorka wrote:Maybe we can compile a list of manufacturers for the P59 Denison, for future reference?

    Off the top of my head:

    BMC (I am told these are the most desirable)
    Cookson & Clegg Ltd.
    H.E. Textiles Ltd.
    F. Fryer & Co. Ltd.
    Windsmoor (MACC) Ltd.

    Known reproductions:
    W.H. Ltd.
    C.W.C.S. (Silverman's)
    J.S. Franklin (sold to Kenya in the 1960s, exact copy of British 3rd pattern P59).
    Smithfields

    Feel free to add to the list.

    Great idea.

    When i get a chance to dig my other 59 patts out i will post pics of the labels/details etc.

    filupe
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by filupe on Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:10 pm

    I've noticed even amongst the '3rd type' there are slight camouflage variations - I've noticed at least 2.

    Gulf91
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:39 am

    filupe wrote:I've noticed even amongst the '3rd type' there are slight camouflage variations - I've noticed at least 2.

    Slight yes,but not distinctive enough to call it a different type Cool

    Tommo
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:30 pm

    Heres mine, Size 2, BMC '66 dated, Got it for £80 in mint condition at W&P a few years back.


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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:21 pm

    Tommo wrote:Heres mine, Size 2, BMC '66 dated, Got it for £80 in mint condition at W&P a few years back.


    Where possible any chance of pics of the labels-Thanks

    koalorka
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:30 pm

    That's a nice banana smock. Very attractive patches!

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:48 pm

    Thanks, and sure thing:




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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:57 pm

    Just gace my smock a quick wash and Very Happy well chuffed in that most of that red ink has come out Very Happy

    On the subject of patches-were those original to your smock Tommo and anybody know what the patches are on mine?

    Thanks






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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:27 pm

    Yes mate they were, but I took em off when I first started reenacting, yours is RE I believe.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:08 pm

    Tommo wrote:Yes mate they were, but I took em off when I first started reenacting, yours is RE I believe.

    Cheers,not seen one like it before to be honest.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:10 am

    Looks like it could possibly be a very early type--131 Independent Commando Squadron Royal Engineers which would explain the commando dagger.

    Typical that the one off the other sleeve is missing and whats the chance of ever coming accross another again to replace it Sad

    This smock is full of mysteries in that as can be seen on the right shoulder are evidence of 2 sets of wings being present????Bottom of the wings look rounded-sort of Air Despatcher,APJI type maybe??

    Also the holes above the right breast pocket EXACTLY match up to a pair of original FRENCH wings i have so would guess that was what was originaly present?










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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:56 am

    Try Geogeodude on ebay,, he has tons of DZ Flashes and lists them everynow and then. Drop him a PM.

    Gulf91
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:59 am

    Tommo wrote:Try Geogeodude on ebay,, he has tons of DZ Flashes and lists them everynow and then. Drop him a PM.

    Thanks Tommo,have noticed and watch his items but as is common with Ebay these days there are some seriously wealthy collectors out there as a lot if not most of his early DZ patches go for stupidly obscene prices Sad Sad

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:18 pm

    For reference purposes, here is one of the better replicas out there, the 1970s-vintage Silverman's clone:






    Some of these were apparently worn by members of the parachute regiment as private purchase garments.

    Notice how the pattern is busier and more erratic. The "brushstrokes" also seem finer and there is a dark brown included in the colour palette.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:29 pm

    Just had a lookk at previous posts; I think there is more than 3 Official types?

    I've seen the early one like your's Gulf, there is two types of the Banana one; one with more green and one with a considerable lot less but with more Brown strokes and a brighter sandy colour, there is the late one like your Engineer one Gulf; I believe these are referred to as the '72 Pattern Style? and there is one that is very similar to the last version but with more 'circular' leafy style cam. I don't know if these are official versions of companies own 'hash' of the smock in 60's/70's but I have seen them all worn by Paras at some time or another.

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