Pattern 1959 Denison

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    Tommo
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:06 am

    Bury_Dave wrote:Raff, it looks like a normal Denison -late pattern issue. I had a mint one once that had teh label at the back of the neck - 1978 dated it was. One of the very last to be made. Quality was definately not what it was on the 60's and earlier smocks.

    The zipper looks like a replacement. Do you think it is ?

    The knits look shorter - more like 1st pattern ones. Do they look like replacements ? Sometimes, as they frayed, they would be removed and one half of a cuff would then be rolled in half and stirched back on.

    Not to worry, you'll have a minter soon Very Happy

    My '66 Denison made by BMC, is labelled 'Denison' Wink

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Bury_Dave on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:31 am

    Photos Tommo, photos ! Wink

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:40 pm

    Here we are mate:


    koalorka
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:42 pm

    Nice, that has all of the info one would ever desire on the smock! "Denison, Pattern 1959" etc. and on a beautiful example of the early mustard type too. You have a wicked combination there.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Eaglehurst on Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:52 pm

    Same here:


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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by kammo-man on Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:25 pm

    66 print is the best !

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Tommo on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:50 pm

    5ft 3 to 5ft 5? I'm 6ft and it fits me, a bit big!!!

    L1A1
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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by L1A1 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:10 pm

    What a great resource this is !!

    I have always loved Denison Smocks and thought I knew the different types til I read up on them here !!

    I have been looking for a 1959 pattern for ages and thought I had found one but when it arrived it was far too small. It had no label and I took a chance based on the measurements as it was reasonably priced. I am 6' tall and 44" chest - take a 180/104 UK military size.

    But having read this thread it looks like the JS Franklyn rather than a 1959 smock as it has the extra pop studs on the tail flap. Am I right here ??

    Its in as new condition and looks like it was never worn or issued.

    Once I get enough posts on here, I will try to swap it for a bigger one in the trading section here.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:19 pm

    L1A1 wrote:What a great resource this is !!

    I have always loved Denison Smocks and thought I knew the different types til I read up on them here !!

    I have been looking for a 1959 pattern for ages and thought I had found one but when it arrived it was far too small. It had no label and I took a chance based on the measurements as it was reasonably priced. I am 6' tall and 44" chest - take a 180/104 UK military size.

    But having read this thread it looks like the JS Franklyn rather than a 1959 smock as it has the extra pop studs on the tail flap. Am I right here ??

    Its in as new condition and looks like it was never worn or issued.

    Once I get enough posts on here, I will try to swap it for a bigger one in the trading section here.

    That wasnt the one on Ebay last week was it?

    If so if i have one to fit you i might be interested in a trade for a 59 Patt smock.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by L1A1 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:12 pm

    koalorka wrote:I meant to post this sooner. Below is another example of a commercial variant. Made in the UK by J&S Franklin and almost nearly identical to the later "3rd" model of the P59 Denison. I have contacted J&S Franklin and they confirmed through their records that these were supplied to Kenya in the 1960s, but they didn't have any further details. It's almost an exact copy, but I noticed that it has 2 rows of 3 snaps on the beavertail, as opposed to just two snaps in MOD-issue smocks.




    Thats the one I have.

    Though mine has no label.

    Have pm'd you Gulf91

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by drmatz on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:50 pm

    my 2nd and 3rd variants, size 2 fits me and im 6' - my size 4 is a bit large on me Sad
    Very beautiful pattern and jacket!





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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:22 pm

    Funny, I've yet to see a P59 smock with a production date prior to 1966. There's a big gap in the numbers here, I wonder why?

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:25 pm

    Most arent dated so no idea when they would have been made???

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Eaglehurst on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:40 pm

    [quote="drmatz"]my 2nd and 3rd variants, size 2 fits me and im 6' - my size 4 is a bit large on me Sad
    Very beautiful pattern and jacket!


    Well if it is a bit large I will take it off your hands....purely as a favour you undertand.. Twisted Evil


    Last edited by Eaglehurst on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by kammo-man on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:46 pm

    Thats why we have always called it the 66 Denison .

    owen

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:14 pm

    kammo-man wrote:Thats why we have always called it the 66 Denison .

    owen

    But the smock was issued since 1959 wasn't it? Or was it accepted that year and only budgeted in the following years or something to that effect?

    One would expect to see a lot more 1960-1965 dated examples, but there seem to be none at all. Why is this?

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Gulf91 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:41 am

    Thats why we have always called it the 66 Denison .

    Thats a first for me.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Bury_Dave on Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:21 am

    Like I've said before, it is dangerous to call things by official sounding names. There is no such thing as a '66 pattern smock'.

    Often, if there is a large contract awarded to role out a new version of something, it is done with long term economy in mind. So a relatively small unit like the Para Regt might hold large stocks of Denisons. These will last a long time and a new contract will be tendered only when those stocks start to run below certain levels.

    HM Govt doesn't order 300 of something every year rather than 3000 every ten years just to help collectors in years to come Wink

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by L1A1 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:32 am


    Regarding sizing -

    I have noticed that some 1959 pattern ( I know this is a misnomer ) smocks have the labels with size and a guide to height and chest size - ie "size 3 - height 5'9" to 6' and chest 42" ...........but then some have just "size 3"

    My question - did they mantain the same sizing throughout all the 1959 pattern ? Will one size 3 be the same size as another size 3 ?

    Desperately trying to find a nice one but dont want to get caught out with one too small like I did on the commercial one I was given as birthday gift and now having trouble selling !!

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Bury_Dave on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:43 am

    I have the WW2 and post WW2 para smocks sizing tables and their 'to fit' and actual dimensions on paper somewhere. I need to get around to putting it onto a word document. Might be useful for those collectors of Denisons who want to wear their smocks.

    too busy at work to comment coherently on the rest of the sizing issue right now Crying or Very sad

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by L1A1 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:50 am

    Bury_Dave wrote:I have the WW2 and post WW2 para smocks sizing tables and their 'to fit' and actual dimensions on paper somewhere. I need to get around to putting it onto a word document. Might be useful for those collectors of Denisons who want to wear their smocks.

    too busy at work to comment coherently on the rest of the sizing issue right now Crying or Very sad

    Dave

    Great - cheers Dave.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by filupe on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:16 pm

    I've been after one of these since years ago, when a fellow passenger on the bus, a rather burly fellow, wore an example complete with Commando qualification wedge on the shoulder. Unfortunately, he looked to be quite attached to it. Always keep getting outbid on these on EBay - this variant especially seems to be approaching the WWII Denisons in price.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Tue May 01, 2012 12:16 am

    Here's a picture I found of what I would consider the first of the Pattern 1959 jackets:





    Notice the much sparser pattern and colours. It's unlike any of the P46 types or anything that came later.

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by Bury_Dave on Tue May 01, 2012 4:47 am

    Yep Raff, I'd agree on that. I call it the "The Eagle Has Landed" pattern or the Sir Michael Caine pattern Laughing

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    Re: Pattern 1959 Denison

    Post by koalorka on Tue May 01, 2012 9:19 am

    The hunt begins. I want a complete Denison lineage.

    I've singled out one more variant that came between these and what we called the Sinai smock. It had the familiar mustard colour, but the brushstrokes were more solid in colour and with sharper edges. These are dated between 1963-1966. I'll see if I have an image to illustrate one of these.

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