New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

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    octoberrust
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    New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by octoberrust on Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:05 am

    Hi all found this jacket it'is german trial or usesd for some SF unit?











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    Philip
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Philip on Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:38 am

    I guess it's KSK.


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    Tommo
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Tommo on Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:10 am

    Lovely avatar, I recognize it Wink lol
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    Albano
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Albano on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:53 am

    Thats a very nice and used KSK smock. Scharrer UGB its an Bundeswehr contratctor for some years now. Nice find!

    Best regards

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by octoberrust on Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:03 am

    Many thanks~All
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:11 am

    Yes, absolutely genuine BW issue. In theory these uniforms are only worn by members of the DSO (Special Forces Division), but I don't know if that is strictly enforced. Certainly the genuine issued items are limited supply, but the commercial versions (nearly identical) are all over the place.

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    Albano
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Albano on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:52 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:...In theory these uniforms are only worn by members of the DSO (Special Forces Division), but I don't know if that is strictly enforced...

    Steve

    In theory and in practice. Sometimes you'll see non-DSO with commercial "KSK" smocks but it's a bit rare and allways are detached soldiers to DSO for some reason. Germans are very straight when concerning regulations and the use of parkas in the BW is mandatory Twisted Evil

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Bury_Dave on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:51 am

    That is one sweet looking shirt. I am jealous !

    So how does one tell a commercial version from an issue one apart from the labels as I'd really like to get an issue one of these. Is there a copy version of this or just the smock ?

    are there special smocks and trousers to go with the shirt ? I get the feeling 'KSK' is the German equivalent of adding 'SAS' on ebay to EVERYTHING British issue Laughing

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Albano on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:32 pm

    Made a bummer Rolling Eyes

    Somehow i saw the shirt octoberrust posted as a smock. The pocket cut and buttons are so mush alike...

    @Dave
    are there special smocks and trousers to go with the shirt ?...
    The usual is to see those shirts with the matching KSK trousers that difer alot from the regular BW issued ones being the more revealing the CAD style buttons on pockets same as shirt and anti-snaging straps.

    So how does one tell a commercial version from an issue one apart from the labels as I'd really like to get an issue one of these. Is there a copy version of this or just the smock ?
    Don't know any copies made so far.

    I get the feeling 'KSK' is the German equivalent of adding 'SAS' on ebay to EVERYTHING British issue Laughing
    You so damn right on that. It's awefull trying to get some sort of KSK specific item and find normal stuff labeled as KSK Evil or Very Mad

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Bury_Dave on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:39 pm

    Thanks for that info Albano.

    I had a look on the internet and saw the same shirts for 79 euros and made by Kohler (?) Brand new, sized xl and xxl. Also with a large stock of same pattern in trop ....... zippers behind the bellows chest pockets and ......... some labelled as 'orig' and others not ........ couldn't see buttons.

    called
    Orig. KSK Bluse, Feldbluse, Feldjacke, Model. 09,
    Neuware
    Original Feldbluse der Kommandospezialkräfte
    Hersteller: Leo Köhler
    mit Versorgungsnummer
    Material: 65% Baumwolle, 35% Polyester
    2 große Brusttaschen mit Knöpfen und zusätzlichen seitlichen Reißverschlusstaschen
    rechter und linker Arm mit Tasche und Klettbefestigung
    verstärkte Ellenbogenpartie
    Front mit großen Knöpfenverschließbar
    Armenden mit Klett weitenverstellbar
    absolut seltens Ausrüstungsteil
    Versandgewicht: 0,9 kg

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Bury_Dave on Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:44 am

    octoberrust wrote:

    Picked one of these up on ebay and expecting it to arrive any time. VERY pleased Very Happy

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:00 pm

    The Köhler pieces are all commercial, however they are identical to the Scharrer (genuine) items.

    After 2004 you want to look for "LHBW" on the label. If it isn't there, it's commercial. Period. If it is there, it's genuine. Period. Pretty easy, eh? Smile IIRC 2004 was the transition year to the new distribution system, so I'm guessing it is possible to find some items with the old "Q" numbers that are dated 2004 and legitimate.

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Bury_Dave on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:19 pm

    Steve, I'll post photos of my one when it arrives but it is a Scharrer.

    We shall see soon enough if i did ok or not Smile
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:47 pm

    I'm sure you did well... as far as I know Scharrer doesn't make commercial pieces, or at least not like this.

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by jimmyduncan23 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:53 am

    just to let you know leo kohler do make issue ksk items like this wustentarn jacket


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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by Bury_Dave on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:10 am

    That's good to know Jimmy. Thanks for posting that up here. Up til now I've only looked for Scharrer items. Now I can widen the search.

    Cheers
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:32 pm

    The Köhler pieces are not genuine issue (labels lack LHBW mark and code) however they are apparently widely used by DSO because they are easier to get a hold of than the Scharrer (genuine) pieces. As far as I know there are no effective differences between the Köhler shirt and the genuine one. This is not true for other pieces from what I've experienced.

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by jimmyduncan23 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:02 pm

    well i dont know about that i have a normal kohler jacket in the same cut and the tags do not have nsns which means it is an issued or had been bough by an army.
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:22 am

    The Köhler shirts are available on eBay, brand new, fairly regularly in many different sizes. As far as I know, if the label doesn't have a LHBW mark and code then it's not (strictly speaking) genuine issue. However, as I said the supply is problematic enough that DSO soldiers use the Köhler shirts. This is the information I got from a DSO member who is also a power collector and has supplied me with a bunch of genuine stuff. Including a LHBW set of Wüstentarn. When I asked about a matching shirt he said to get a Köhler one because that's what they do.

    Unlike manufactures like TacUp, Arktis, TSR, etc. Köhler is a regular producer of genuine items. In fact, they were one of the original contractors who produced Flecktarn stuff in the early 1990s. But like American Apparel and Propper, they also sell direct to the civilian market with zero noticeable differences.

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by jimmyduncan23 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:43 am

    yes thats true but to get a nsn it has to bed tested and issued like alot of the platatac stuff for our SF, i have a civi copy also and the tags are diffrent from the issued one, so looks like kohler make issue sets to if only in small batch lots
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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by jimmyduncan23 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:16 am

    Here is the difference between the issued kohler ksk shirt and the civi market one





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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:30 am

    Interesting that the top one doesn't have a LHBW mark on it. I'll ask my DSO friend to comment on that if he can.

    For those who don't know about commercial pieces, the lower one has a lot of "red flags". First is the use of English. That should be a big one Very Happy Second is there is no year of manufacture. The BW has been pretty consistent about having dates (usually month and year) on their clothing since the BW was created in 1955. No date generally means not government issued. Lastly, the "Q" numbering system was last used in 2003 +/- one year (definitely out by 2004). Q numbers were never a reliable way to distinguish a legitimate issued item since they appeared on lots of commercial stuff. However, seeing a Q number after 2004 is a for sure no-no. BW also uses an abstract sizing system and not a literal metric one. However, that seems to be changing very recently. At least the KSK stuff seems to be literally instead of abstractly measured.

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    Re: New style of german woodland camo combat jacket!?

    Post by jimmyduncan23 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:25 am

    i think the LHBW number is the second line down like on the issued scharrer stuff the number 468959 just doesnt have the LBWH in front

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