German cap

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    spukmeyer
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    German cap

    Post by spukmeyer on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:32 am

    I put the cap that I have of the Federal Republic.
    I hope you like.


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    Some more...


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    marder
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    Re: German cap

    Post by marder on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:51 pm

    You have a great collection of BW caps there ! thanks for showing !
    Prost ! Steve.
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    Re: German cap

    Post by spukmeyer on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:55 pm

    Thanks mate, I think they are all I have, maybe leave me some, will watch to see.
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    Re: German cap

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:57 pm

    Ooh! Very nice collection of hats. Especially the older service hats.

    Note that the BGS Sumpftarn hat is not genuine. Different companies have been manufacturing these since the late 1980s, which is after the BGS stopped using camouflage. The only original ones are made from cotton (not plastic backed), a gray lining inside, two buttons on front, and the "bullseye" badge sewn above. The price of these hats is about EUR 150-200. Very rare.

    I am also curious to see the hat between the early M43 service hat and the winter Flecktarn. I do not recognize this type of hat.

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    Re: German cap

    Post by spukmeyer on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:09 pm

    Hi Steven, thanks for your comments, is a cap in black and BGS are manufactured by Mil Tec
    ¿Copy?
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    Re: German cap

    Post by marder on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:01 pm

    Spukmeyer...yes, Steve is correct, it probably is a "Miltec" copy, plenty of these on auction sites like E-Bay,for little money... as for the black M43 style cap...could be a civilian officials, Railways or something....it is not military.
    Prost ! Steve.
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    Re: German cap

    Post by Easy Gee on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:43 pm

    Very nice collection, I'm keen to kind out more about your Tropentarn cap, where these actually issued ?, I was going to buy one recently myself, only to discover it was commercial, I looked into these caps and have yet to find a genuine example to compare one too Wink
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    Re: German cap

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue May 01, 2012 2:39 am

    Anything with "STURM" on it is commercial. And as I described earlier, there is only one type of Sumpftarn hat I know of and they are very rare and very expensive. If you see a hat that doesn't look like I described, it's commercial. There's a slight exception to this, but don't worry about it... I've only seen one example of that type and I'm still not sure it's official Very Happy

    I agree that black hat is something other than military. It could be a Feuerwehr (fire department) hat with an incorrect badge on it.

    The desert hat is probably commercial. There is a genuine issue hat, and the commercial ones are 100% identical, but they are damned hard to get. Germans use commercial items in Afghanistan if they want to.

    Steve
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    Re: German cap

    Post by Albano on Wed May 02, 2012 9:37 am

    Not Feuerwehr. Those are darker blue with red trim for low ranks and silver trim for high ranks. Buttons also are way bigger than that on spukmeyer's hat. Could be Bundespost but then only after seeing any tag.


    photo taken from Freiwillige Feuerwehr Fitzen website

    And a nice collection of BW hats you have there spukmeyer!

    Best regards

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    Re: German cap

    Post by cammobunker on Wed May 02, 2012 10:20 am

    Spunkmeyer, a very nice collection indeed. What is the flecktarn between the BGS Sumpfmuster and the BLW yellow piped Schiffen? The Cockade seems to be too high for standard Feldmutze...is it some kind of Bergmutze with a higher peak in front?
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    Re: German cap

    Post by Albano on Wed May 02, 2012 2:28 pm

    @Steve

    Only now i finaly understand your doubt. That feldmütze between the early type (aka M56) and the winter hat it's a Sturm copy of the BW feldmütze in black as Pztrupp cap Rolling Eyes. Have one from my early naif days Laughing. Fortunatly not being made or sold anymore.

    Best regards

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    Re: German cap

    Post by spukmeyer on Sat May 05, 2012 4:21 am

    Camobunker, here's the larger picture of the hat you mention.


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    Re: German cap

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat May 05, 2012 11:11 am

    Albano wrote:Not Feuerwehr. Those are darker blue with red trim for low ranks and silver trim for high ranks. Buttons also are way bigger than that on spukmeyer's hat. Could be Bundespost but then only after seeing any tag.

    Ah! Of course you are correct. It could also possibly be... I forget the actual German term... civilian guards for government installations. Over the years they used various different uniforms which mimicked BW uniforms. For example, recently (not sure when) they used uniforms that are identical to Flecktarn except 100% black.

    cammobunker wrote:Spunkmeyer, a very nice collection indeed. What is the flecktarn between the BGS Sumpfmuster and the BLW yellow piped Schiffen? The Cockade seems to be too high for standard Feldmutze...is it some kind of Bergmutze with a higher peak in front?

    This is probably a 1988/89 trials hat. I've seen only a few of these (I have 2, I think) and the thing that bothers me is there is no TruVsu labels in them, which is not standard German practice for official trials. However, I haven't seen any hats like this with a TruVsu label and for sure the such hats were used in the trials (I've seen official BW photos of soldiers wearing such hats). Also, when I was in Germany in 1991 I found a shop that had dozens of Moleskin and Flecktarn hats just like this. At the time there were no commercial Flecktarn items as far as I saw in over a dozen shops while traveling Germany. My guess is these hats were leftovers from the trials. None had labels in them other than a small size tag.

    Steve
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    Re: German cap

    Post by cammobunker on Sat May 05, 2012 11:50 am

    Ah, a trials hat! That explains a lot. I wonder why they didn't choose this and instead chose the one they did.
    Thanks guys,I've learned something today!
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    Re: German cap

    Post by Easy Gee on Sat May 05, 2012 1:10 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Anything with "STURM" on it is commercial. And as I described earlier, there is only one type of Sumpftarn hat I know of and they are very rare and very expensive. If you see a hat that doesn't look like I described, it's commercial. There's a slight exception to this, but don't worry about it... I've only seen one example of that type and I'm still not sure it's official Very Happy

    I agree that black hat is something other than military. It could be a Feuerwehr (fire department) hat with an incorrect badge on it.

    The desert hat is probably commercial. There is a genuine issue hat, and the commercial ones are 100% identical, but they are damned hard to get. Germans use commercial items in Afghanistan if they want to.

    Steve


    Thanks for the confirmation Steve.

    That's great, I suspected there was never a BW Desert cap issued,as I've never seen anyone with one,but least I now know that there was a Desert cap issued, just VERY hard to find!!! Crying or Very sad
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    Re: German cap

    Post by Albano on Sat May 05, 2012 2:00 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:
    This is probably a 1988/89 trials hat. I've seen only a few of these (I have 2, I think) and the thing that bothers me is there is no TruVsu labels in them, which is not standard German practice for official trials. However, I haven't seen any hats like this with a TruVsu label and for sure the such hats were used in the trials (I've seen official BW photos of soldiers wearing such hats). Also, when I was in Germany in 1991 I found a shop that had dozens of Moleskin and Flecktarn hats just like this. At the time there were no commercial Flecktarn items as far as I saw in over a dozen shops while traveling Germany. My guess is these hats were leftovers from the trials. None had labels in them other than a small size tag.

    Steve

    Ei!? We are always learning. Didn't know that! Mines also have only a size tag and i always thought they were commercial by Sturm Rolling Eyes
    But then i'm still convinced they're copies Twisted Evil

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    Proof!

    Post by cammobunker on Sat May 05, 2012 5:49 pm

    Easy Gee wrote:
    CollectinSteve wrote:

    The desert hat is probably commercial. There is a genuine issue hat, and the commercial ones are 100% identical, but they are damned hard to get. Germans use commercial items in Afghanistan if they want to.

    Steve


    Thanks for the confirmation Steve.

    That's great, I suspected there was never a BW Desert cap issued,as I've never seen anyone with one,but least I now know that there was a Desert cap issued, just VERY hard to find!!! Crying or Very sad

    I have proof of two things now: rabbit

    First, the caps are worn, at least sometimes, and second, that Wusentarn comes in XXL size
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    Re: German cap

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat May 05, 2012 6:21 pm

    Hehe... funny picture Smile But that could be a commercial hat because they are 100% identical to the genuine issued hats except for the tag. So it's impossible to say if this is a genuine issue hat or not.

    Albano,

    STURM and TSR (TS Rotenburg) commercial versions are usually very well marked with labels. Which is another reason to think these hats are genuine trials hats. Neither STURM or TSR were making these things back in 1991 or 1992 as far as I know.

    To summarize the evidence:

    1. These hats were available very early in Flecktarn history. Before there was any significant commercial versions.
    2. There are no labels identifying the items at all, which is a little more favoring them being trials.
    3. Absolutely such caps were tested, but I have never seen one with a TruVsu label.
    4. I've also never seen a commercial one of this design with a clear commercial label.
    5. The design is consistent with the fieldcap design used by the BW since 1956, which makes sense for a trials item.

    I suspect the BW adopted the current cap style vs. the traditional because it is cheaper to produce.

    Steve

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