Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

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    saltefanden
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    Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:57 am

    Hi all, found this in a militaria shop in Nice, France, this week.

    The shopkeeper assured me this was a real French Army issue piece, but I have never seen one like it.
    It is made from HBT fabric, is water repellant and fully lined with a sand coloured Thinsulate lining. The lower inner pocket contains a button-on hood.

    Can anyone tell me if whether this is the real deal or just a high quality repro, please?











    Any added info will be greatly appreciated, cheers!

    vonstuck
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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by vonstuck on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:36 pm

    Hello
    First time I see that!
    I have not information
    Gilles

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by Philip on Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:01 pm

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Fremdenlegion-Tarn-Parka-Jacke-Sand-Wuste-88L-DAGUET-AFGHANISTAN-LEGION-Legion-/130775555808?pt=Militaria&hash=item1e72d49ee0


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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by Easy Gee on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:38 pm

    Completely new to me too Ronnie, but I like it a lot, I have not seen anything like this before!!!

    I will watch this post with interest as I am keen to find out more, as I know you are too!


    saltefanden
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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:55 pm

    Thank you all for your quick responses.

    The fact that Dr. Vonstuck does not know of this item worries me beyond belief Very Happy
    I still fear it is a fake or unissued piece.

    In the store (Rue Marceau, Nice) was several similar jackets, complete with lining, only in the CCE, woodland pattern and in used condition.
    The eBay auction Philip has linked to (thank you for that!) describes the jacket as a paratrooper item, but construction is much more like a US M/65 warming jacket, only in HBT material.

    Hope to learn more, and if anyone wish to see additional pictures, do ask!

    Cheers and all the best!

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:04 pm

    That looks like a commercial piece to me. A BEAUTIFUL commercial piece, though Very Happy The details on it are very consistent with genuine pieces, including the label and snaps. However, I doubt a French military piece would have a Thinsulate label with the English terms "TM" and "Insulation". The UPC tag is also in English, which may or may not be an indication of origin.

    Gilles found one on eBay, also in new condition. The fact that a shop had several of these, including in CCE (which doesn't seem to be the correct style for CCE), and there's also some on eBay... it leans things towards commercial.

    Gilles can answer about the style. Most European nations have detachable liners instead of sewn in liners. I don't know what the current standard is for French winter clothing, but I suspect they also have detachable.

    Steve

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:08 pm

    Steve, I hear what you are saying, and lean very much towards your conclusion.

    The store I bought it in had only this one in desert, all others where CCE and like I said in well used condition.

    The eBay speciment that Philip linked to is indeed similar, and would indicate a further accessabilty/commercial item. But again, the general construction of the garment suggests a warm-piece, rather like some of the fixed-liner US M81-pattern M/65 I own.
    I have been screening this forum and others about info on 'Daguet' patterned pieces. I gather that only French AF and navy use this pattern at present, which may explain why the current eBay offer is calling it a 'para' item, or that AF or navy personel may be more prone to cold enviroments and would need a warm-piece?

    I wouldn't mind it being a commercial piece; I'm just thrilled to own a piece of Daguet-patterned equipment, which for strange reasons has eluded me for years! But any further info would be welcome!

    Thank you all again for the inputs and for looking!!

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:56 am

    Whoops... yeah, Philip found the link, not Gilles. oops Wink

    That eBay seller claims everything he has is Legion or Airborne, so a grain of salt for that one Wink But there are so many features of this coat I would not expect on a commercial piece. hmmm... well, maybe this is in that gray area of private purchase? I always wondered what French soldiers wear for warmth in a desert environment.

    BTW, I've got a 2001 dated hat and a helmet cover I can send your way next trade.

    Steve

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by fourtycoats on Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:56 am

    I have an identical parka made by Seyntex, I bought 5 years ago from a Belgian dealer. It was the only one I has seen until now. I think your parka is genuine issue. CSV is a big supplier to the French military and commercial items from such sellers tend not have labels with "length",(C,M or L) shown.I think you may find that the chevron cloth has a waterproof backing, not breathable but still nice.

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by saltefanden on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:38 am

    Cheers fourtycoats, that is great news!

    And yes, while a nicely constructed piece, you need no more than a few minutes in it to build up a good sweat, as breathability is close to 0%.

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by vonstuck on Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:37 pm

    Hello
    Sure, it is not a Daguet period garment
    Military or commercial, i don't know
    I think it is military because I have a parka in CE pattern with the same bar code
    http://vonstuckcamouflage.free.fr/france.php

    Gilles

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:04 pm

    Good news indeed! But I'm still scratching my head about the English language elements. Gilles, is this common for current French items?

    Steve

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by saltefanden on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:52 am

    Thank you Gilles for the reference, gosh you have an unbelieveable French collection, I am in awe!
    And this is definately a recent item and not Daguet period.

    And Steve, thank you for your everpresent professional sceptisism! Really!
    But I believe, even with my very limited command of the French language, that all words on the barcode tag are used in French, only desert is usually 'desért'.

    Oh, and do throw in the French hat and cover in our next trade! Very Happy

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:12 pm

    I already checked out common French and English words, knowing that so many are common. On the UPC tag I suppose they couldn't hack the accent mark for some reason, so I think you're right that this is definitely a French tag. I'm still scratching my head about the Thinsulate label, but I suppose that's not a big deal.

    Very nice.

    Steve

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by kammo-man on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:16 pm

    Imported fabric ?

    Known for its quality and branding ?

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:04 am

    Yup, I'm sure that's the answer now that it's looking to be legitimate. Now that I think of it this sort of thing is happening more often now. In the past the military would license something, slap a boring name on it (oh, how about "fabric, water resistant" Smile), and call it good.

    One of the reasons it surprises me to see ANY English on a French uniform is because France has some pretty restrictive laws protecting French language. I'm surprised that an official government made item would have anything English on it.

    Steve

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by JuFR on Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:59 am

    From my point of view,
    * it is not a commercial parka
    * it is not a daguet period jacket
    => it is an French Air force parka (it exists the same in CCE)
    Julien

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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by JuFR on Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:00 am

    161/04 on the label means the 161 pieces on year 2004

    saltefanden
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    Re: Daguet-pattern HBT parka, fully lined

    Post by saltefanden on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:47 am

    Merci, Julien! Great information.

    I know it is not Daguet period, simply most collectors I've met call the pattern 'Daguet' in reference to the first time it was issued in the Gulf War.
    I will simply refer to the pattern as French desert camouflage from now! Very Happy

    Thank you again!

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