Belgian of old...

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    ripcord
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    Belgian of old...

    Post by ripcord on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:05 pm

    A couple of photos of some of my nicer Belgian Uniforms.



    Gemini
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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by Gemini on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:08 pm

    I like those!The jig saw coats are not hard to get a hold of are they?

    ripcord
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    Belgian of old...

    Post by ripcord on Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:18 pm

    Hey Clayton,

    Hate to sound like a broken record, but I would check the Sportsman's Guide HQ for Belgian Items. The current puzzle pattern is usually available
    but sometimes they have early ( brush, puzzle, Olive ) field pants. The early smocks and jackets are a bit harder to find. Got to dig a bit harder,
    they are out there...


    ripcord
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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by ripcord on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:07 pm

    My currently favorite puzzle pattern Belgian smock.



    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:02 pm

    To answer the question about how difficult it is to get Belgian Jigsaw... it totally depends on which uniform you're looking for.  Roughly speaking, they are:

    M1958 (almost all made in 1958 only. Two slightly different types of jackets)
    Denison Smocks (about 3 or 4 designs)
    1993 Experimental
    1995 Experimental
    1997-present (being phased out)
    2010-present Ripstop (no white color! Could be 2011?)
    1970s Commando Poplin trousers
    1980s Poplin
    Sniper smock
    Gore-Tex
    2000s Tropical Ripstop
    Winter parka
    Winter trousers
    Various LBVs, frag vests, and equipment.
    Various hats
    Oddball limited production 1958 style items from early 1960s (including for Navy use)

    Most of these are quite difficult to find.  The easiest to find are the ripstop sets currently being phased out.  The winter parkas are also very easy to find.  Next is (ironically) the 1958 stuff as they made zillions of them.  Finding a Denison style smock is not too difficult, but some are harder to find than others.  The rest of the stuff on this list varies from uncommon to rare as hen's teeth.

    Steve

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:09 pm

    Ripcord,

    Nice stuff!  The first Jigsaw is the 1991 type and that is not easily found.  The Jigsaw Denison looks to be of the 1970s variety.

    Note that these smocks were not supposed to have badging on them.  However, unofficially soldiers sometimes put them on for use in things like parades or "meet and greets" with the public.  Until the late 1990s Para/Commandos could wear anything they wanted and they often wore the 1970s stuff for such events.  But shortly after 1997 the regulations were changed and they were instructed to wear standard current issue items only.  Which is why a lot more of the old stuff hit the markets around then.

    Steve

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by Gemini on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:04 pm

    Thank you very much Ripcord and CollectinSteve!

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by Stepi on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:43 pm

    Is the Commando Kansimba patch original to the smock in the second photo? If it is, then that is one hell of a piece!

    ripcord
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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by ripcord on Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:23 pm

    Unfortunately, I no longer have either of those particular  Belgian  uniforms.

    So, no way to know  if the patch was original.

    I have seen many copies of this patch for sale. Some are misidentified and all are copies, as far as I can tell. 

    I have an example of this cool patch, but I believe it is a copy as well..

    Will post a photo soon ( when my camera comes back from the shop )...

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by koalorka on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:26 pm

    Did you sell them on eBay?

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by ripcord on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:31 pm

    They were traded long ago as partial payment for some tigers..

    rip....

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by koalorka on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:30 pm

    I quite like the first one. Not common to see it in that kind of configuration and those patches are just sweet.

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:51 pm

    *if* it was badged by a soldier it would be for ceremonial/public relations purposes, as badging like this would not be present on a normal field uniform. Para/Commandos are a volunteer force so they spend quite a lot of effort reaching out to the public to get them interested in being Para/Commandos. They even have a youth outreach program where kids can go through a simplified training program and earn awards for it. I've seen pictures of some of Para/Commandos in older uniforms (brush and jigsaw) to give a bit of historical flavor to the events. My guess is that the jacket was worn for such an event, assuming it wasn't tarted up by a collector with a box full of badges.

    Steve

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by ripcord on Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:13 pm

    Hey all,

    As Steve says, the above uniforms were probably set up for parades ,Vet's reunions*,recruiting functions, and the like ( or, as Steve said, they could have been " tarted up " ).

    I received these as shown, and generally don't mess with anything unless it is blatantly wrong.

    I find it difficult to believe the Kansimba patch could be genuine, as they were produced in very small numbers, and issued to very few people ( for a short time ).

    It does look similar to a patch I bought from Lancers Militaria in the '80 's, that I still have.

    I have had other patched Belgian pieces over the years, and most have only had Para patches like, and similar to the one I have posted today.






    rip....

    * Had the opportunity to purchase a 47/56 that was set up by a Vietnamese Para with a full compliment of  Vietnam War era patches when I was chasing a French 47/56.

    It was used by the Vet at reunions of former Vietnamese Paras that were held in California. Would have loved to have grabbed it, but it was not a priority then.  Just cant have everything.

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    Re: Belgian of old...

    Post by CollectinSteve on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:01 pm

    That's a pretty rare jacket, though most people wouldn't care about it Very Happy The vast bulk of this type was made in one contract run in 1958. Very small numbers were made in the early 1960s for private purchase. Most likely to fill in gaps of particular sizes that were used up. Note the lack of ABL designation on the label. My assumption is that the units of the Belgian Para/CDO made the purchases, not individuals, but that is just a guess.

    It is interesting to note that the Belgian military still has a bulk purchasing mentality, where they buy enough stuff at one time to last years. Which is why the Belgians are still using "white" based ripstop uniforms instead of the new type that doesn't have the white. Apparently stocks will take a while to deplete before they move to non-white (only the new jungle uniform is non-white).

    For those of you who have seen a lot of Belgian items, this big purchase behavior is why you see very few variations in label dates.

    Steve

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