Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Share
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:14 am

    So if I read this correctly, only Danish-made scabbards were issued, either with US or Danish-made bayonets?

    I have found US bayonets in Danish scabbards, but not vice versa.
    avatar
    M55q
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Scandinavia
    Registration date : 2017-04-20
    Number of posts : 15

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by M55q on Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:03 pm

    Wolverine wrote:So if I read this correctly, only Danish-made scabbards were issued, either with US or Danish-made bayonets?

    I have found US bayonets in Danish scabbards, but not vice versa.

    You are correct!

    However, I am not certain where the scabbards were made. Denmark is a good guess, but I am not 100% positive.
    I have seen the type of scabbard used elsewhere, and since we ordered all our Garands in Italy from 1955 and onwards, I have a strong suspicion that the scabbards could have been supplied from outside Denmark.

    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:39 pm

    Yes, the Italian scabbard may be similar.

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:16 pm

    I managed to buy a bayonet in the meantime, I hope the post hurries with bringing it.

    In the meantime I encountered another hurdle when I bought a Danish large pack (actually reused British WW2).
    In the old demonstration photos I don't see and p37 type support straps crossing at the back of the pack,
    so how would the L-straps connect to the bottom of the large pack without those? I mean there are no buckles
    at the bottom of the pack, normally on p37 webbing the support straps make the buckles.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:37 pm

    In some illustrations the support straps are visible, in others they are missing. The only explanation I can think of is that the front hooks of the pack straps are clipped onto the top of the ammunition pouches, and this is what keeps the pack from slipping off. The lower 1-inch lengths of the pack straps simply may not be attached to anything in that case. It would work, but the pack would bounce around a fair bit if the soldier was running. But since that arrangement was probably not worn in the field, it should not have mattered.

    One advantage to wearing the heavy pack/blanket roll like that is that it could be dropped more easily.

    This is all guesswork though.

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:54 am

    That could be the case. There's just one pic I know that actually shows the inside of the webbing with the larga pack attached, and the lower straps do
    seem to point toward the packs bottom corners a bit, but the actual ends are not visible.
    Maybe it's just supposed to rest on what's beneath, at first this was the gasmask bag, and later the poncho bag came into issue.
    This would surely be a very unbalanced construction though, the only weight at the front being just the basic pouches.

    While I'm typing this I remembered this photo, where the straps are actually hanging loose, and the weight being compensated by attaching the small pack to the front.





    And in the meantime I've bought an M50 bayonet!
    Together with a small lot of patches, some of which I have no idea about what they are for.

    And would the shield and Denmark patch be appropriate on a battledress?




    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:58 am

    Yes, that top photograph seems to illustrate what I had in mind, regarding the pack straps.

    Nice bayonet - do you have one of the two types of belt hangers for it?

    I am not sure if that style of Denmark title and national shield would be appropriate for BD, but they do show up on the olive green field uniforms.

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:27 pm

    I have the wide belt adapter, the type with the 4 rings

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:52 pm

    Finally got my order from 417 in, originally made before August, first package lost, then sent to wrong adress and returned, in the meantime we moved, so new adress,
    had to make another payment for some stuff added to order etc. and the payment didn't shop up at their account, lots of bank inquiries later it was finally there, then
    the Danish bank charged my bank €53 for answering the question, my bank charged that through to me without notice, which is good because they are required to do
    so by law, so I got that money back, and now finally this arrived!

    Black low boots, tiny size, but good for displaying.
    And then an 80's rubbberized large pack with carry strap, M58 cap, M58 poncho, M75 rifle sling, M66 pants and an M58 parka. Not sure about the model number for the
    holster, M45-50 or 59?



    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:19 pm

    If someone can straighten out the naming of the holsters, I would be grateful for the enlightenment!

    What is that long 1-inch strap attached to the pack? Could it be related to the modified U-pouch?

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:37 pm

    Dunno really, it's just a straight ending strap, exact same material and color as the rest on the pack, so at least something very late, if not specific for these packs.

    That'd be the only use the small buckles on the back would have, seeing as the Danes didn't use the support straps in any photos, quite a useless feature to keep producing
    if it's never used otherwise.
    avatar
    M55q
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Scandinavia
    Registration date : 2017-04-20
    Number of posts : 15

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by M55q on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:49 am

    Wolverine wrote:If someone can straighten out the naming of the holsters, I would be grateful for the enlightenment!

    What is that long 1-inch strap attached to the pack? Could it be related to the modified U-pouch?

    The holster is a modified British holster for the 37'Webbing.
    They modified the holsters in 1949, when the "Neuhausen" pistol was introduced.
    The nomenclature is a bit unclear, but either M/45-49 or M/49 would be my best guess.

    A similar holster, but made from scratch, was introduced in 1946 for the FN Browning pistol. The holster is known as holster M/46.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:11 pm

    Thanks M55q.

    Any idea about the long 1-inch strap that is with the large pack? Could this be the should strap that is used with the modified U-taske?
    avatar
    M55q
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Scandinavia
    Registration date : 2017-04-20
    Number of posts : 15

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by M55q on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Thanks M55q.

    Any idea about the long 1-inch strap that is with the large pack? Could this be the should strap that is used with the modified U-taske?

    The short answer is, that it might be. A more qualified answer would be, that since the colour is off (it should be a more karkee-green) it is a "utility strap." They originally came in pairs together with the large pack, and was used for a large number of tasks depending on the unit, regiment, and the "philosophy" of the group / section commander.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:00 pm

    Would the utility strap have tips on both ends?
    avatar
    M55q
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Scandinavia
    Registration date : 2017-04-20
    Number of posts : 15

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by M55q on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:06 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Would the utility strap have tips on both ends?

    Not necessarily.
    The utility straps that was issued in the 1980s and 1990s had no tips at the ends.
    They discontinued the use of metal tips when the new and "improved" coated packs and equipment was introduced.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:40 pm

    M55q wrote:
    Wolverine wrote:Would the utility strap have tips on both ends?

    Not necessarily.
    The utility straps that was issued in the 1980s and 1990s had no tips at the ends.
    They discontinued the use of metal tips when the new and "improved" coated packs and equipment was introduced.

    Understood - so no buckles on the utility straps; some had metal tips, and some had coated tips.

    Presumably the strap issued with the modified U-taske had a different stock number from the utility straps?
    avatar
    M55q
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Scandinavia
    Registration date : 2017-04-20
    Number of posts : 15

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by M55q on Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:27 pm

    Wolverine wrote:
    M55q wrote:
    Wolverine wrote:Would the utility strap have tips on both ends?

    Not necessarily.
    The utility straps that was issued in the 1980s and 1990s had no tips at the ends.
    They discontinued the use of metal tips when the new and "improved" coated packs and equipment was introduced.

    Understood - so no buckles on the utility straps; some had metal tips, and some had coated tips.

    Presumably the strap issued with the modified U-taske had a different stock number from the utility straps?

    Yes, that would be a correct assumption.
    However, my list of stock numbers (domestic and NATO) is far from complete, and for the time being the straps issued the modified U-taske is known only as that. One day I will come around to doing a full inventory list with the help of the Royal Archives.

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:11 pm

    This strap's way longer than the normal support straps too, about twice the length, and has "melted" ends.

    And thanks for the possible modelnumber of the holsters, this one is also a modified P37, though I have seen green ones at a fair last sunday that were
    factory made, maybe those deserve another number haha.

    Anyways, with the boots here my 50's loadout is almost complete, the only thing really missing being the right shoulder regiment patch.
    avatar
    M55q
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Scandinavia
    Registration date : 2017-04-20
    Number of posts : 15

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by M55q on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:09 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:This strap's way longer than the normal support straps too, about twice the length, and has "melted" ends.

    And thanks for the possible modelnumber of the holsters, this one is also a modified P37, though I have seen green ones at a fair last sunday that were
    factory made, maybe those deserve another number haha.

    Anyways, with the boots here my 50's loadout is almost complete, the only thing really missing being the right shoulder regiment patch.

    If you are going for a late 1950s - eraly 1960s loadout, you don't need a regimental flash on the shoulder of the M/58 uniform.
    They were not introduced, officially, before the 1970s (1975). Some units did however make their own before that.

    The wool uniform (M/44) had regimental flash on the collars and a regimental number on the shoulder (e.g. 5th Regiment = Falsterske Fodregiment).

    The "new" holsters would indeed need their own number.

    michelwijnand
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 29
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 201

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:53 am

    Yes it will be earlier 50's, with the M44 uniform, and I have collar badges from the Prinsens Livregiment now, so that's what I'd need a shoulder flash for, though I'd be happy with others too, as collar badges are more easily replaced by another than the flashes, which I haven't really seen for sale anywhere yet

    mikedenmark

    Location : Denmark
    Registration date : 2017-12-10
    Number of posts : 9

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by mikedenmark on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:06 pm

    Shoulder flashes were only used for the battle dress, not for the M58 uniform.

    Pistol M1946 Highpower was issued with a light brown leather Holster. I have never seen a danish webbing holster for that.
    Lathi Pistol M40S was either issued with a swedish style brown or black leather holster. Occassionally with a tiny crown over HV on the front flap.
    For officers of the reserve, Lathi webbing holsters with compartments for 2 magazines were issued. Made by the company KitKat. Around 1955.

    Garand bayonets were either orig. short US, shortened long US or, the rare danish made bayonets. Danish made Garand bayonets were either marked 1954 or 1955 on the blade.

    Usually scabbard metal was parkerised or green. Black painted were used by the life guards.
    Webbing for the garand scabbard exist in several colours. Kakhi, green and white, to name some.

    Danish made boots are often marked at the top edge. Usually with a crown, and the year on either side: 19crown56. Fairly easy to find. Not all boots are so marked.

    The super rare plastic boot was introduced around 1990.  Broke down after a couple of months use. besides, the foot was basically in a plastic bag, meaning ecsessive sweating.
    Not a success, but a bid at making boots useable where biological or chemical agents had been used. My guess is they burned them. But, I have had one in my hand, they definitely existed. From the ancle and down, the whole boot was a plastic moulding. NOT flexible. STIFF. Small wonder they broke when used.

    In general, there were 2 different users of danish army gear: The army and the home defense.
    These had seperate regulations, and did not always buy the same equipment.
    That means weird stuff can be seen in photos where it is impossible to say if it is homedefense or army people.
    Like I never got the poncho bag while with the home defense. The item existed, but was not part of the basic set. That was basically army, unless you bought it privately second hand.

    Around 1980, the original stocks of british equipment were depleted, and replacements were made. Generally in a darker green colour and with alu metal.  Even later, the quality was getting worse, thinner straps, with heated ends without metal at all. The strap fabric became so thin, it started to cut in your shoulders when used. Bags were so thin as to be comparable with ordinary plastic bags.
    By then, the new strapping system was in planning and costs for the old parts were kept at a minimum.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:36 pm

    Thank you for the information - do you have any photographs showing equipment from your service time?

    mikedenmark

    Location : Denmark
    Registration date : 2017-12-10
    Number of posts : 9

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by mikedenmark Yesterday at 11:01 am

    No photo´s, no.

    I have my own gear set somewhere in a closet here from when I enlisted in the homedefense in 1980.

    At that time we were issued with the WWII UK gask mask, in the UK mask pouch.

    Later we got the gasmask model 1969, and the large rubberised bag for it.
    This meant there were no spare room on the basic belt.
    2 large german magazine pouches on front, Gas mask pouch, shovel and canteen on the back.
    The gasmask pouch had to be so far to the right, that you could pull out the mask with your right hand.
    The rubberised pouch was so big it took all available space.

    Many of us modified the canteen pouch so it could slide directly on to the basic belt.
    Per regulation it should be suspended from back end right shoulder strap and front end left shoulder strap.
    It always bumped around when you were running. It was a nuisance.
    Alu cup was inside the canteen pouch, matching the canteen.
    Inside canteen pouch against the wearer is a small compartment for antiphosfor stuff. Usually carried in a small sealed plastic bag.

    If hit by phosfor, apply water, and then apply the stuff in the plastic bag. Idea was, canteen is out, and then the plastic bag will be accessible. Once it reacts with the phosfor, scrape it all off with a knife.
    Which we did NOT have.

    The Skyttegravskniv M/62 Trenchknife model 1962. In the home defense, it was only issued to the man with the machine gun. The rest of us had no knife.
    Many bought them from surplus, (rarely offered) or back alley channels from the army.
    The army issued the M/62 to all their enlisted men.

    Depending on unit, around 1990, many homedefense soldiers were extensively equipped with privately purchased equipment. Only way to get anything that wasn´t WWII vintage.

    One curious detail that will also create trouble for collectors forever is about the army boots.
    Now, the danish army boot is the best boot in the world. This means that is what is issued to soldiers going on UN missions, and those who went to Yugoslavia since 1984.
    Any cry for something usefull went unheeded by the army.
    This means that just about anyone on foreing missions went directly to the nearest Army shop in town and bought 2-3 pairs of modern boots.
    Friend of mine had such a shop. Trade was brisk the days when 150 soldiers came to buy boots all at the same time.
    They can be seen in the early years after 1984 in Yugoslavia.

    It took 10-15 years before the army eventually switched from supplying a defesive NATO army, to actually buying modern stuff for offensive actions.

    An anecdote I heard about Yugoslavia in 1984 was once there, the danish commanding officers met the officers from the other nations. And was asked if they had left home in a hurry? Puzzled they asked why the other officers thought so. , The answer should have been like: Well, we can see your soldiers are using completely outdated equipment, so we assumed you was on short notice, and had to take anything present in your local storage.

    When this stinging comment was reported back to headquarters in DK, the army finally started buying new gear to go with the M84 uniform. But, mind you, at first only for international operations.



    If you want photos of the homedefense, try Google: Hjemmeværnet and then choose images.

    avatar
    Wolverine
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 861

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Wolverine Yesterday at 12:06 pm

    Thank you for the information and the link.
    Sometime we would enjoy seeing pictures of your old gear set.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Danish Pattern 37 - like Pouches

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:22 am