Korps Mariniers Webbing

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    michelwijnand
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:39 pm

    Just scoured my reference photos, managed to find this one from 94, look at the right canteen, dark color, small snaps,
    must be the nylon version. Another interesting detail about these is that they hang higher than regular canteens.
    The introduction of these probably coincided with the nylon magpouches, and the large issue of US nylon fieldgear types at that time.




    I got some new KMarns kit today and will post up some pics tomorrow, also of my configuration of an early 90's nylon webbingset.
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:51 am

    Excellent photo - that solves the question.

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Gulf91 on Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:48 am

    Are they British GS MK6 Helmets?

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:48 am

    Yes, those were used for a short while at the time. They saw very limited use in Cambodia, and a bit more in Iraq. There were even some situations (probably testing) where complete British uniforms and PLCE gear are worn.
    Apparently there were also blue UN covers for the Mk6 without the tags seen in British ones.
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:03 am

    I have seen a photo from this period of Kmarns using the Mk 6 with ACE Mobile Force.

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:48 am

    And as promised, here's a pic of my early 90's webbing setup, consisting of US LC-2 belt and suspenders, nylon FAL-O pouches,
    1 normal KL canteen, and a nylon pouched canteen. The holster is not correct for a gunner setup like this, but it has a nylon edge,
    so I just hung it on there.
    I also have a British green PLCE gasmaskbag, which were also used at the time.

    I also included a pic to show the different heights the canteens hang at.





    Around 92-93 there were different US made items in use, mostly nylon types.
    I've seen at least the following webbing parts in use:

    M56 suspenders
    M67 belt with Davis buckle
    LC-1/2 suspenders
    LC-1/2 belts

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:57 pm

    Here's some comparison shots of an earlier and late holster.
    In addition to the visible differences like strap length, there's also the edge reinforcement that's semi-synthetic in the late one,
    and the beltloop is made of thinner material on the late one.



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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:58 pm

    Got another bit of KM gear today, an old type FAL-O pouch with sling, different side than I already had, so I got a good pair now.
    And then an M1923 cartridge belt, which could be WW2 US, or postwar, but the marking is not readable anymore. These were also used by the KM for quite a long time.


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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:53 am

    I bought some more KM kit again, got some p41 style suspenders and found some strange ones too.

    The khaki one is to makea pair with my earlier bought khaki one, then there's a pair of regular green ones,
    and then a pair with different back hooks and different rings.

    These back hooks don't fit any belt's eyelets, neither on the pistolbelt nor the Garand belt.
    They do however fit the ladder-buckles of the p41 style backpack, which makes me thing that's what they were
    specifically for, even though one of them has a smaller ring in front throught which the buckle does not fit, making
    it impossible to thread the strap through without removing the buckle from it.

    Please ignore the Belgian pistolmag pouches, the rest is all KM gear.


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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:19 pm

    Because the cartridge belt has the pot-metal buckles, it is probably made late in the Second World War - the brass buckles returned with the post-war belts. If the pockets have the internal retainers for the 5-round clips, then that is also a wartime feature.
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:02 pm

    I wonder if these suspenders were made for Kmarns? They are nearly identical to US M1944/45 suspenders, but the webbing material appears to be Dutch (less obvious in the photograph). I found them in a Dutch surplus shop, along with some KMarns pistol belts.
    It is also possible that they were made for Dutch use with the PRC-10 radio radio harness?
    Or I could be completely wrong on both guesses.



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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:01 pm

    Could it be Norwegian? I've seen Norwegian things made of very similar material to Dutch webbing, like magazine pouches.
    I've never seen any proof of this US model strap in use with any Dutch branch of service
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:29 pm

    It could be Norwegian, although most of the Norwegian-manufactured versions of US suspenders are not nearly as faithful to the originals as this one. It is certainly common to find original US M1944 suspenders in Norwegian stocks, so it stands to reason that they may have copied them. (Did the Norwegians ever use the US-issue 1944/45 packs? I don't know, but if not, there would be no reason to copy the suspenders so closely in detail.)

    Still, it is strange that they would show up in a Dutch shop that mostly had only Dutch surplus. But that doesn't prove anything of course.

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:22 pm

    I think it's strange that it explicitely has the loops to put the horizontal strap of the M45 pack through, one would expect it should be from someplace that uses the actual pack too, only Greece but as far as I know they didn't use the pack with suspenders as intended, but modified and simplified many US surplus items.

    Oh and I found something nice today, I have a British S6 type rubberized gasmask bag, but I opened it for the first time in probably 10 years, and it has a metal KM****** tag inside, and the carry strap is distinctly Dutch semi-synthetic material like the very last series of suspenders etc.

    This does mean I should replace it since it was hanging on a Falkland War kit...
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:07 pm

    That is a very cool find!

    About the suspenders - Greek is also possible, but as you say, they tended to re-purpose US suspenders. The only other country I can think of that used this pack configuration in large numbers is South Korea, but their suspender clones are quite different from these ones above. I am still leaning towards Norway, or possibly some other NATO country that made them for use with the PRC-10 radio, which called for suspenders like this to be used with the radio pack.
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:02 pm

    Here is a comparison of two different types of poncho carriers that I have found:

    1. Envelope type, with webbing strap closure, and the type of snap hooks also used on some respirator carrier straps.



    2. Roll-up type, with leather strap/buckle closure, and the type of snap hooks used on KMarns large packs and sleeping bag carriers.


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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:58 am

    There's 3 types then, mine has all the features of your leatherstrapped one, but is envelope type
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:36 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:There's 3 types then, mine has all the features of your leatherstrapped one, but is envelope type

    Well, now I have another one to look for... But overall, I think these are quite scarce.

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:04 pm

    Yeah they are, it took me far too long to find one. Although in the meantime I was already offered another one by someone who chose to not answer anymore even after I offered him more than I paid for the one I later bought

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:51 pm

    The actual British replacement for my Dutch S6 bag arrived today, so I took it off my Falklands War loadout to take some photos.
    I noticed some more differences than just the straps and KM tag, as the bag is actually about 4cm wider, has an actual lower strap instead
    of just a simple string and disc lock for it, different colored elastic inside the lid, no stamps, a bigger piece of strap to pull it open with, and
    a long pocket on the side.
    It also seems I never actually inspected the bag well enough to find more proof of it being Dutch KM issue, as there's actually an NBC instruction
    card inside, together with a Dutch manual for the S6 gasmask, so apparently those were actually issued here too.






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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:19 pm

    So this looks like a specially-made bag for KMarns, not a modified British-made bag?

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:06 pm

    Exactly, on my British bag I also can't see any sewn in foam padding sticking out, and it felt more rigid than this Dutch one.
    And with it being bigger it definately can't be a modified British one anyway.
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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by Wolverine on Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:00 pm

    A very interesting discovery then.

    The internal pocket arrangement also seems different from the British pattern, although I don't have one right in front of me to look at.

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:03 pm

    Yeah I think it is, I hastily looked over the British one before hanging it in my storage, but I think the pocket for the spare filter is at the back in the British one

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    Re: Korps Mariniers Webbing

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:32 pm

    Reuploaded the photos from posts 17, 18, 22, 26, 31, 32, 33, 34 and 45 because apparently photobucket thought they weren't functioning badly enough.

    17



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