Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

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    panzerwerk
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    Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun May 24, 2009 5:10 pm

    This Pack has seen better days , it is salvageable, its in decent shape , it had mice living in it in a garage , there are no holes just the remnants of mice nests , it needs to be washed and the leather treated its a little stiff .



    Last edited by panzerwerk on Mon May 25, 2009 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun May 24, 2009 8:33 pm

    This is a fairly difficult to get pack, for those of you who have a hankering for Austrian stuff.

    I'm a little bit confused about the strap configuration. Looks like someone took the left and right straps off the front and then added something to the back? Are those the remains of old French Y straps I see poking around from the backside?

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun May 24, 2009 8:56 pm

    Honestly I dont know , I will take a pic and you can tell me . bounce

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun May 24, 2009 9:38 pm





    Very faded round stamp


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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun May 24, 2009 9:52 pm

    Steve , the straps are there , they are sewn on the inside not on the outside , it has a faded date stamp that looks like 1960 , so this would be an earlier version of the pack , I might have to clean it up and keep it in the collection !!!

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun May 24, 2009 11:40 pm

    Just as I suspected... you have a Frankenstein's monster Very Happy

    The left and right straps were popped off and sewn on the inside. Why someone did this... I don't know. it doesn't make any sense from a security standpoint because the corners of the flap are no longer protected by the stabilizing straps, which I should think is the whole point of them. But who knows... maybe they tried them on the inside for a while. I have an earlier, much larger, pack dated 1958 which has them on the outside and my pack (I forget the date) is also on the outside.

    However, that aside someone's put a lot of work into converting this sucker. Those pack straps are standard French Army Y-straps with the rear portion cut off and the shoulder straps refitted with D-rings. The normal Y-strap ends (looking at mine as I type) are fitted around the central ring by two brass suds and stitching on the left and right sides. By the looks of it someone popped the studs and the stitching, then put a large stud in their place. I can see the remains of the stitching (which wasn't replaced) and am going to guess the original brass studs no longer are securing anything.

    The circular stamp is a typical French Army stamp that I've got on a lot of the leather gear. The previous version was tan, the later version black. Both are identical in construction have have the very unique metal hooks yours still has. They either hooked into a magazine pouch (matching leather) or a large triangular leather belt loop with metal eye (also matching leather). From what I can tell the brown leather was used in the 1950s, the black in the 1960s. The brown stuff is (or was) available from Sportsmans Guide, the black stuff is extremely hard to find. Took me ages to get a belt and my Y-straps are not in great shape.

    So dunno who did the customizing on your pack, but no matter what those shoulder straps aren't supposed to be there.

    Regardless, that's an uncommon type of pack. If I were in need of one I'd snap it up, ditch the French shoulder straps, pop the stitching on the left/right straps, and re-sew the straps back on the front where they (most likely) belong. That's not a lot of effort, considering!

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun May 24, 2009 11:50 pm

    First I am not contesting what you have stated , But , the sewing is original (I think) and all the packs I have seen have had rivits in them , If someone removed the straps from the front , and sewed them on the bottom , there would have to be a patch , or they would have had too replace the entire front camo panel to hide the holes from the rivits ? Curious , I almost want to send it too you to check out , If it was modified , they did a damn good job of it .

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Mon May 25, 2009 12:04 am

    I have to go feed the neighbors cats , I will post some comparison shots when I get back .

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Mon May 25, 2009 12:28 am

    I have removed the offending French Straps , here are the shots with a 1964 dated pack , notice the extensive use of sewing instead of rivets throughout, I dont know why someone would go to that much trouble. but I have seen worse , Maybe someone was trying to make it into an uber rare WWII Waffen SS pack , this I have seen with Austrian dot !!






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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon May 25, 2009 1:28 am

    Well, it looks like the straps were indeed sewn on the under side. Odd!! I have a 1958 huge pack (with three straps) which has them sewn on the outside with the heavier duty attachment clips for the Y-straps. The straps are sewn onto the pack flap, not riveted. I also have a 1964 medium pack identical to your 1964 pack. Notice that both my 1958 and our 1964 packs have leather reinforcements on the opposite side of the straps, while your 1960 pack does not. The stitching on your 1960 straps is almost certainly original.

    The odd thing here is the pack clips. My guess is they tried to go with cheaper clips and found they were too easily damaged (I've seen similar ones damaged) and then reverted to the earlier, heavier clips. I think it's no coincidence that there are no reinforcements for the pack straps either. Looks like someone tried to cut corners to lower costs!

    Regardless, the French straps most likely have nothing to do with official use of the pack. I don't see the Austrian government purchasing Y-straps from France and retrofitting them, but hey... who the heck knows? Wink

    Interesting piece no matter what!

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon May 25, 2009 1:30 am

    BTW, I lost two 1959 and one 1960 Asutrian parkas to mice. Apparently the mice around here don't have the same manners that yours do!

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Mon May 25, 2009 10:23 am

    When was this camo first introduced ? I dont know what this pack is , but it does look like the K-Mart version , Maybe they were toying with cost cutting ?? I will have to ask the guy I got it from when he bought it , Thanks Steve for all the help , I guess this one is slipping back into the collection after I give it a good washing and cleaning .

    I would have to think the only reason the mice did not eat this pack is it made such a great home for them , there were the remains of your classic nest inside the smaller sections of the pack , and in the box it was stored in must a been a nice warm safe place to make baby mice LOL

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by Philip on Mon May 25, 2009 10:38 am

    panzerwerk wrote:When was this camo first introduced ?
    1957-but i am not sure about it. when i was in the army i read something about it but i can't remember...


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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon May 25, 2009 3:08 pm

    Yes, 1957 is when the camouflage was first produced. Here's a link to another thread on this Forum which discusses the various bits:

    http://iacmc.forumotion.com/austria-f56/documenting-austrian-dot-camo-items-t515.htm

    The field gear is a bit hard to pin down. The extremely large backpack was apparently part of the KAZ57 uniform, but was produced without the camouflage for a period of time in the 1960s. The medium pack was probably part of the KAZ59 uniform. The small pack's years of use is something I can't remember off the top of my head.

    It is interesting to note that the KAZ57 and KAZ59 uniforms were designed to be worn over wool uniforms during the summer and over padded liners during the winter. Regulations allowed soldiers to ditch the wool uniform and retain only the service shirt during really warm times. This is why the uniform's pockets are dual purpose pass-through and integrated, unlike typical oversuit only items. Often the "Drillichanzug M59" (barracks uniform) was worn in the field either under the camo uniform or on its own. The German Bundeswehr did the same thing with their Arbeitsanzug since the Splinter camo uniform was terribly uncomfortable.

    Urrisk's book on post war Bundesheer uniforms is where much of this info came from, but unfortunately I've only seen portions of the book. Someday I'll manage to secure one!

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    SS pack using Austrian style camouflage? Is there any such thing?

    Post by tf6860 on Mon May 03, 2010 5:59 pm

    My son acquired a pack that seems idetical to the Austrian 1950s-60s era field pack. It has the same straps, rivets, camo pattern flap, etc. However, there are numerous faded ink marks all over it. But there are also 2 small leather rectangles that say "SS". The thing that intrigues me, is that the 83 year old man said he brought it home from Italy, where he served in WW II. He said "I got it off a Kraut". My son even went back to confirm with the old fellow that he got it during the war. As I say, it is identical, in every way, to the Austrian pack with black leather straps, silver rivets, etc. But it has a lot of marks. Unfortunately, I can't read most of them and I see no dates, RZMz, runes, etc. Has anyone heard of such a thing? Thanks
    Chris

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by panzerwerk on Mon May 03, 2010 6:40 pm

    the Short answer is NO , if there are SS stamps in the leather , I think a crafty person was trying to fool someone into thinking it was real , I know of no official WWII Pea Dot packs ever being made , it is possible that one was field made , I think the old guy was pulling your leg , but I would need to see pictures especially of the camo itself to confirm , Austrian Pea Dot was never made anywhere near WWII , so if its Austrian camo , no matter what is stamped on it , its post war ,unless the pack itself is WWII vintage and somebody repaired it with a post war Austrian camo flap.

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    Re: Austrian Dot Pattern Backpack

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon May 03, 2010 7:22 pm

    Yup, zero possibility of this being WW2 anything. The Austrian camo pattern was not based directly on any previous pattern, despite many people confusing it with "SS Peas", as it is often called. There's actually nothing similar between the two patterns.

    As for the packs, there isn't anything in the WW2 inventory, SS or otherwise, that looks anything like the Austrian post-war packs.

    If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably isn't a Waffen SS goose Very Happy

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