IACMC MILITARIA FORUM

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

+2
CollectinSteve
Slenderden
6 posters

    Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Slenderden
    Slenderden


    Location : Ukraine
    Registration date : 2023-04-24
    Number of posts : 1

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by Slenderden Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:39 am

    Hi (my first post here, please don't make fun of me Dutch jacket M58 in black 1f609 .
    I recently bought such jacket M58 (Buitenjas GvT (Gevechtstenue) M58).
    It was made in olive color, but later repainted in black.
    Such repainted jackets can be found on sale, so this is not a one-off phenomenon.
    I have a question - could such repainted jackets be used in military exercises simulating a hypothetical enemy? That is, to indicate the "opposing force" (the so-called OPFOR).
    Dutch jacket M58 in black Img_2014
    Dutch jacket M58 in black Img_2015
    Dutch jacket M58 in black Img_2013
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6993

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:43 am

    Welcome! Do not worry about being made fun of here. We're not that sort of people Wink If you want to, there is an Introductions section where you can tell everybody a little about what you collect.

    https://iacmc.forumotion.com/f5-introductions

    As for your question, I can not say what the Dutch specifically do for OPFOR, but "over dying" could be used for that purpose. More likely it was done after it was purchased from the military. Sometimes companies think they can sell better if they are black or even another color. Many years ago I saw a pile of Belgian Jigsaw camouflage trousers that had been dyed black in order to reduce the camouflage pattern. From a fashion perspective, maybe it was good? For me I did not have that reaction. I cried Wink

    Steve

    milly66 and Slenderden like this post

    avatar
    milly66
    Corporal
    Corporal


    Name : Kevin
    Location : Netherlands
    Registration date : 2019-08-11
    Number of posts : 57

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by milly66 Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:02 pm

    Jacket looks genuine. Any chance of seeing the dyed label for confirmation. I agree with the above but here in the Netherlands i have never seen in a shop or online any military item that has been dyed to further its sale. Especially this type of really common Jacket.
    Regards Kevin
    Wolverine
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major


    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1409

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by Wolverine Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:11 pm

    The buttons appear to be black. Perhaps this jacket was manufactured in black originally?
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6993

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:43 pm

    I wondered about the black buttons too!  However, you can see the tag is black.  Isn't the tag for this white? And is there really two cuff straps for each arm? I'm not familiar with the details, but that struck me as odd.

    Hmmm... another possibility might be police or private security?  Police used this type of parka in Belgian Jigsaw camo, probably for a very limited time.

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Dutch_10
    Dutch jacket M58 in black Dutch_11

    Maybe a company overdyed existing parkas and then put black buttons on?  Far cheaper than making new items.

    Steve

    ripcord and TennoHeikaNate like this post

    Wolverine
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major


    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1409

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by Wolverine Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:27 pm

    Yes, the double cuff straps are standard.
    michelwijnand
    michelwijnand
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant


    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 36
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 818

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by michelwijnand Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:59 pm

    I've heard from older guys that already in the 80's there were shops selling black dyed ones for use as workclothing. There's even commercial made ones that pop up for sale every now and then.

    Also, CollectinSteve, nice jacket! I've seen one for sale ages ago but didn't buy it as I didn't understand it could be real, only an outside pic back then, no label.
    Around that time there was also the Jigsaw rainsuits that were used in Lebanon, and ca81-82 the first trial Jigsaw uniforms for the marines but in the original Belgian colors,
    in 83 their M83 version.

    Weirdly, much later during the trial stuff before the M93 gear there was a body armor in Jigsaw, but in Belgian colors again. I suspect it was an airforce thing since the same NSN was used for a
    green version soon after, which was worn by airforce security troops.
    CollectinSteve
    CollectinSteve
    ADMIN
    ADMIN


    Location : New England, US
    Registration date : 2009-03-08
    Number of posts : 6993

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by CollectinSteve Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:04 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:I've heard from older guys that already in the 80's there were shops selling black dyed ones for use as workclothing. There's even commercial made ones that pop up for sale every now and then.

    Also, CollectinSteve, nice jacket! I've seen one for sale ages ago but didn't buy it as I didn't understand it could be real, only an outside pic back then, no label.
    Around that time there was also the Jigsaw rainsuits that were used in Lebanon, and ca81-82 the first trial Jigsaw uniforms for the marines but in the original Belgian colors,
    in 83 their M83 version.

    Weirdly, much later during the trial stuff before the M93 gear there was a body armor in Jigsaw, but in Belgian colors again. I suspect it was an airforce thing since the same NSN was used for a
    green version soon after, which was worn by airforce security troops.

    I don't remember where I got the pictures from, but sadly it wasn't available for sale. Otherwise I would be able to provide much better pictures Wink

    I have a picture of one other jacket. That's a grand total of 2 that I've seen in 20+ years. I don't think I'll have one in my collection any time soon.

    Steve
    michelwijnand
    michelwijnand
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant


    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 36
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 818

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by michelwijnand Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:14 pm

    Adding the one in your pics I've seen just 2 as well, rare stuff!
    I'm adding the Jigsaw armor cover I have to my thread about trial gear, since it might be just that.
    For some reason I never added it there
    avatar
    Bert353
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant


    Location : France
    Registration date : 2018-02-03
    Number of posts : 114

    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by Bert353 Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:35 pm

    That jigsaw jacket is nice! Long ago I had one like that in ME blue, the epoulettes are with velcro.
    About the black buttons, if they used a dye for nylon, it's normal that the buttons and zippers are black. if you look good, you see that they aren't dyed trough and through, there are some edges where the paint covered less.

    Sponsored content


    Dutch jacket M58 in black Empty Re: Dutch jacket M58 in black

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 09, 2024 7:15 am