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    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981

    CollectinSteve
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:09 am

    Here is a picture of a reconstructed jacket from 1978. This particular jacket, despite being fairly used, had no apparent signs of badging on it. So I took the liberty of putting similarly used badges from the same time period onto it.

    I have also been reconstructing a 7th ID jacket for some time now. I'm fairly close to having it be complete with replacements for the badging that was originally on it, however it's not quite ready to show off yet Very Happy When it is I'll post a picture here.

    Steve

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 IMG_5898
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    Post by Philip on Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:08 pm

    Nice shirt Steve! Could you please post a close up of the label?
    thanks


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    Post by Mercenary25 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:40 pm

    I have reference photos of 101st wearing this transitional tropical jacket.

    It is basically OD green in RDF cut.


    Last edited by Mercenary25 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Post by Mercenary25 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:50 pm

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 Sc000010
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 Sc000110


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    Post by AndrewA74 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:10 pm

    Mercenary25 wrote:I have reference photos of 101st wearing this transitional tropical jacket.

    It is basically OD green in RDF cut.
    It's not in RDF cut at all. RDF cut was the same as most Jungle Jackets. This is more of a BDU cut.
    Andrew
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    Post by Mercenary25 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:24 pm

    AndrewA74 wrote:
    Mercenary25 wrote:I have reference photos of 101st wearing this transitional tropical jacket.

    It is basically OD green in RDF cut.
    It's not in RDF cut at all. RDF cut was the same as most Jungle Jackets. This is more of a BDU cut.
    Andrew

    I hate to rain on your parade, but you're wrong. You're thinking of ERDL. The RDF is transition from ERDLs/OG-107s to BDUs. Be careful when you think you know everything. There's always a conclusion for it.

    Take a look at my RDF SF uniform.

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 DSCF3878
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 DSCF3877

    What you were thinking of must be ERDL. Same cut as Jungle jacket.

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 DSCF3201
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 DSCF3210

    Cheers.


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    Post by AndrewA74 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:46 pm

    Okay, what is the name of the ERDL-style jacket with slanted pockets that came out around 1978? I've always been taught that those were RDF?
    Andrew
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    Post by Mercenary25 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:58 pm

    AndrewA74 wrote:Okay, what is the name of the ERDL-style jacket with slanted pockets that came out around 1978? I've always been taught that those were RDF?
    Andrew

    If it is slanted, then it's ERDL. Remember before BDUs were adopted, Army continued to use ERDLs while they adopted RDF until they officially adopted BDUs.

    The ERDL is in jungle fatigue cut. There's two different versions: Green dominated and Brown dominated. During post-war, RDF adopted brown dominated pattern but in their own cut as transition uniform. BDUs basically are based on RDF but with reinforcement areas of elbows and knees then bold woodland camo pattern.

    I don't know much about green "RDF" jacket above, but I would guess when RDF is issued, they also created OD green version because some units still used OG-107s, apparently some units still used it when BDUs were issued, 101st for instance in those reference photos I provided.


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    Post by AndrewA74 on Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:39 pm

    Yeah, I know about the colors and the mixes. I only have one wartime ERDL (dated 1968 if I remember correctly. It's a mix of the brown and the green versions (Arch can attest to that one). Here is the tag from the slant pocket I have made from newer looking ERDL cloth...

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 P1050334

    Dated 1978 if I can read right. I thought ERDL ended in Vietnam?
    Andrew
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    Post by Mercenary25 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:08 am

    AndrewA74 wrote:Yeah, I know about the colors and the mixes. I only have one wartime ERDL (dated 1968 if I remember correctly. It's a mix of the brown and the green versions (Arch can attest to that one). Here is the tag from the slant pocket I have made from newer looking ERDL cloth...

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 P1050334

    Dated 1978 if I can read right. I thought ERDL ended in Vietnam?
    Andrew

    I'd like to see pic of the whole jacket. It's odd for sure. Note contact is DLA, not DSA. No ERDLs have DLA contract.

    The mix of brown and green is quite rare but seen frequently. It happened because the factory is out of brown-dominated fabric so they had to take left-over green-dominated fabric.

    Could it be a reproduction, using ERDL fabric to recreate a ERDL set then added tag from a post-war jacket? Because this is not ERDL tag. I've checked several of my ERDL jackets.


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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:07 am

    Easy guys... there's no need to squabble. A simple correction to terminology is all that is needed.

    Yes, the so-called RDF (Rapid Deployment Force) uniform is the same as what is also called Transitional. As far as I know neither name is official. The RDF name came about because units rotating into the RDF were often issued this uniform. But the RDF was formed *after* this uniform started production and remained active even after the uniform was dropped. So while it is commonly called RDF, it isn't directly tied to them. This is why I personally prefer calling it Transitional because that is a more accurate description of it.

    Transitional came in the following forms:

    Brown ERDL Poplin (very rare, I think only a prototype. Dated 1976)
    Brown ERDL (probably surplus cloth)
    Green ERDL (probably surplus cloth)
    Woodland ERDL (same shapes as M81 Woodland I think, but smaller)
    Olive Drab
    6 Color Desert

    I do not know if there are other forms or not. I've seen Transitional uniforms used by US Army, US Air Force, and US Marines. I do not know if the Navy proper used them or not.

    I also do not know if the various versions of Transitional had specific periods of production. But overall the production dates are from 1978 through 1981.

    Steve


    Last edited by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:11 am

    Jeremy,

    Thanks for posting those pictures! It is very nice to see that I got the badging right Very Happy Do you have dates for those pics? Based on the MILES gear and what appears to be US Woodland, I'd say early 1980s.

    I've had a couple of Vietnam era ERDL uniforms with both Brown and Green ERDLs mixed.

    Steve
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    Post by Philip on Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:30 am

    Jackets with brown and green material are so-called clown jackets.

    Navy example:
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 A1


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    Post by Mercenary25 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:12 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Jeremy,

    Thanks for posting those pictures! It is very nice to see that I got the badging right Very Happy Do you have dates for those pics? Based on the MILES gear and what appears to be US Woodland, I'd say early 1980s.

    I've had a couple of Vietnam era ERDL uniforms with both Brown and Green ERDLs mixed.

    Steve

    Steve,

    I'm glad you appreciate those reference photos. I've scanned them from old book I have sitting in my shelves and collecting dust. The book is published in 1990. So those photos were from pre 1990s, you're right, should be around 1980s. Note BDUs, Kevlar helmets, MILES, and Black Hawk helicopter.

    I wish a former 101st could shine a light on it as why they used OD RDF while they were issued BDUs. I find it a bit odd.

    I'm not saying that mixture of green and brown is reproduction. I have one myself, actually the only one pocket is green dominated while the rest is brown dominated. LOL.

    I was trying to refer that Andrew's strange tag, it could be reproduction of ERDL with later tag added. I've seen some of commercial or repro with tags came from different uniforms. I should've said it clearer but I was typing quickly last night.


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    Post by pwmiraldi67 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:20 pm

    hey All
    I coined the phrase RDF back in the 90s (see Uniforms & equipment of US infantry Lrrps and Rangers)to desribe uniforms made with ERDL material but were in the post war cuts, and the pattern applies to the OG-107 jungles too, RDF cut.
    transitional or the Delta pattern is the 3d pattern that was used in nam.

    Ive actually seen a piece of brown Dom ERDL poplin was actually used in Nam
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    Post by pwmiraldi67 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:29 pm

    Here me in 1987 with my platoon sgt wearing Nam era jungle fatigues still, since we were in a Hot/Tropical area, much like the 101st, and troops in Hawaii, and Panama

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 SpecialForcesftMac026

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 SpecialForcesftMac027

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 WwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwUS25thInf-1
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:49 pm

    More cool pics! Thanks. Finding clear pictures of Transitional uniforms in use is pretty difficult. Photographically US armed forces were pretty neglected in the late 1970s compared to before and after. Then trying to find clear shots of the pockets, badges, etc. runs into the usual problems of obscuring by angle, equipment, distance, etc.

    Up until recently this was the best "combat" pic I had Very Happy

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 Marilyn-chambers-demotivational-pos

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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:50 pm

    Philip,

    Thanks for confirming that the US Navy also used this type of uniform in addition to US Marines.

    Steve
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    Post by Mercenary25 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:02 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Philip,

    Thanks for confirming that the US Navy also used this type of uniform in addition to US Marines.

    Steve

    Marines.... They were a bunch of walking flea market. They used combo of ERDLs, RDFs, M1956, M1966, M1967, LC-1, and m1955 flak vests. I always look at 70s-80s photos of Marines with amusement.

    Cheers.


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    Post by Mercenary25 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:04 pm

    pwm, are those not reenacting photos? Were you in Panama or Grenada? Cheers.


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    Post by pwmiraldi67 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:40 pm

    top 2 were us doing a TV show on the Military Channel about 4 years ago on grenada in the 1st 2 photos we're portraying Delta soldiers who died in the Black hawk crash, Delta wore these along with those terrible Rothco Tigerstripes which were intended for the Marines originally.

    paul

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww-35

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww-36

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 WwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwUSGrunt17-8

    me in 1987 with the 25th ID Light, we were still allowed to wear the Jungles since the new lightweights hadnt been issued yet, then they made us buy em!!
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 WwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwUS25thInf-2

    here I was lucky enough to find aset of early lightweight BDUs dated 1983, wish id kept em
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 WwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwUS25thInf-3

    heres a good resource that talks about all the transition gear and uniforms after Vietnam, goes into detail about ALICE gear and RDF patterns Smile
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 Mybook2
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    Post by AndrewA74 on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:37 pm

    My apology, I checked my jacket, and it's not slant pocket. It's just like the one in this thread. I don't know what happened, major memory loss.
    Andrew
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    Post by Mercenary25 on Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:08 pm

    AndrewA74 wrote:My apology, I checked my jacket, and it's not slant pocket. It's just like the one in this thread. I don't know what happened, major memory loss.
    Andrew

    Smile Cheers.


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    Post by Philip on Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:30 am

    pwmiraldi67 wrote:
    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 SpecialForcesftMac026

    US "Transitional" Tropical Jacket, 1978-1981 SpecialForcesftMac027
    What kind of helicopter is that?


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    Post by pwmiraldi67 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:32 pm

    Blackhawk aka Crash Hawk!!

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