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Mercenary25
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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    bond007a1
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    Name : Steven
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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by bond007a1 Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:11 pm

    OK...for my second question/discussion topic of the day....I know SOF used commercial assault vests/gear but what about standard forces? do they use commercial clothing such as Popper or Tru-spec or the Rothco stuff?? I have heard that some groups did utilize this such as National Guard units...etc.. and if the US did this...what about other nations such as Italy & Germany....etc..because I know you can easily buy vegatato & tropentarn stuff from the Chinese/Hong Kong...commercial sellers

    AND what is the story on CRYE's MULTI-CAM.....I saw that Delta operators used it & also some British SF guys...to "set them apart" from the reg troops....any ideas on this stuff????

    Steven


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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by nkomo Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:50 pm

    The collectors of OIF and OEF items are going to be in for a ROUGH time in the future. Commercial gear was used so much by US troops during these engagements. I have seen combat used DCU's that were made by Propper (commercial and US issue).

    Remember, the Govt. would only issue you a few sets of DCU's. I am not sure what the actual number was, but it certainly wasn't enough to make it through a week. The desert is a hot place and people sweat large amounts. Thus making the uniforms dirty and stinky. Personally, I wouldn't want to wear the same uniform over and over again. Many soldiers would buy extra uniforms for daily wear. Commercial versions, in many cases, were much cheaper than actual issue pieces. Remember also that combat has a tendencey to take a toll on uniforms and they will need replacing often.

    As far as gear goes, many soldiers bought commercial gear to wear in the desert. Many of the soldiers didn't like the LBV system and chose to wear tactical vests. Some of the brands that were bought were Blackhawk, London Bridge Trading Company, AWS, etc., etc. I have many vests that were worn and used in A-Stan and Iraq in my personal collection that I have bought from soliders and surplus shops. A perfect example of commercial vests being worn is the LBT chest rig I have posted on the forum.

    In summation.....my advice to all OIF and OEF collectors is to start buying used DCU's ,used tactical gear, etc. RIGHT NOW!!!!! In a few years, the fakers will be passing off commercial gear and uniforms saying "This has been in the desert. Trust me!". Hmmmmmmmm........something to think about.


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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by Mercenary25 Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:05 pm

    For your multicam question, you might want to check this thread at OSW in reference section.

    http://www.onesixthwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61893


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    Post by nkomo Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:24 pm

    Very interesting page Merc. I am hoping to someday be able to find a set of Multi-Cam that was actually won over in the sandbox. However, with all the air-softers and paintballers wearing it in the field, I'm beginning to wonder if we'll ever be able to spot a real one. Very Happy
    Arch
    p.s. Thae comment about air-softers and paintballers is not a slam in anyway,shape or form.


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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by Mercenary25 Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:05 pm

    Good luck, Arch, you're going to need it. Wink


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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by zvez Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:36 pm

    WEll and we do know that GROM and other Polish SF are wearing Official govt. issue multicam in the tail end of iraq and now in Afghanistan.

    Chris
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    Post by bond007a1 Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:32 pm

    very true...Chris, Arch & Jeremy....I have started a photo & discussing thread just on multicam in this same forum...

    Steven


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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:27 am

    Oh, it's far worse than Arch makes it out to be Very Happy In addition to a lot of regulations being ignored or at least not actively enforced, all kinds of stuff went off to Iraq that wasn't officially issued. It was pretty much left up to the discretion of lower level leadership from what I understand. But that's not the half of it.

    Because the Army was caught so flatfooted in all kinds of areas, emergency funding was allocated directly to Brigades getting ready to deploy. They were allowed to purchase, basically, anything they thought they needed which the Army wasn't able to provide. This included things like Camelbacks, ballistic eye protection, radios (one battalion of the 101st had 50 different types squad radios!!), kit for Interceptor Body Armor, holsters, probably pistols (not 100% sure about that), etc. etc. in addition to uniforms. The PEO offered some info on certain things to buy, and I'm pretty sure they had to be bought through GSA, but whatever the case was it meant that for a few years there was a LOT of kit bought by individual units that did not conform to issued stuff. What they didn't do was allow purchases of ballistic protection gear except from approved sources. At least not on a large scale.

    As for the commercial uniform purchases... the Army had a lot of logistics problems early on. Some bases had more DCUs than they knew what to do with, others had next to none. Or they would have enough uniforms but not enough helmet covers. That sort of thing. Because things were moving fast (much, much faster than the general public was aware of) there wasn't time for the outdated logistics systems to move huge amounts of material around the country 100% of the time 100% accurately.

    When ACUs were first introduced there were big problems with private purchases. That's because you could call up US Cavlary or Brigade Quarter Master and purchase a brand new set of ACUs in any size you wanted and have it in a couple of days. But on base? All kinds of problems. And if you were deploying in a couple of weeks, and if a soldier knew that the other guys in your unit or Brigade had the new stuff, what do you think they did? You got it Very Happy It was bad enough that 25th Infantry Division had to post a big note on the homepage of its website telling soldiers that it was a crime to purchase a commercial ACU, even though often the commercial ones were made by the same factories by the same people to the same specs as the stuff made for the Government.

    BTW, this is true for other nations as well. I have a set of German desert trousers going up on eBay in a week or so that came back from Afghanistan. Not standard issue, but first hand info says lots of unofficial stuff was being worn over there by German troops for the same reasons stated in this thread.

    "Genuine" has a very fuzzy meaning these days Wink

    Steve
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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by nkomo Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:32 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Oh, it's far worse than Arch makes it out to be Very Happy In addition to a lot of regulations being ignored or at least not actively enforced, all kinds of stuff went off to Iraq that wasn't officially issued. It was pretty much left up to the discretion of lower level leadership from what I understand. But that's not the half of it.

    Because the Army was caught so flatfooted in all kinds of areas, emergency funding was allocated directly to Brigades getting ready to deploy. They were allowed to purchase, basically, anything they thought they needed which the Army wasn't able to provide. This included things like Camelbacks, ballistic eye protection, radios (one battalion of the 101st had 50 different types squad radios!!), kit for Interceptor Body Armor, holsters, probably pistols (not 100% sure about that), etc. etc. in addition to uniforms. The PEO offered some info on certain things to buy, and I'm pretty sure they had to be bought through GSA, but whatever the case was it meant that for a few years there was a LOT of kit bought by individual units that did not conform to issued stuff. What they didn't do was allow purchases of ballistic protection gear except from approved sources. At least not on a large scale.

    As for the commercial uniform purchases... the Army had a lot of logistics problems early on. Some bases had more DCUs than they knew what to do with, others had next to none. Or they would have enough uniforms but not enough helmet covers. That sort of thing. Because things were moving fast (much, much faster than the general public was aware of) there wasn't time for the outdated logistics systems to move huge amounts of material around the country 100% of the time 100% accurately.

    When ACUs were first introduced there were big problems with private purchases. That's because you could call up US Cavlary or Brigade Quarter Master and purchase a brand new set of ACUs in any size you wanted and have it in a couple of days. But on base? All kinds of problems. And if you were deploying in a couple of weeks, and if a soldier knew that the other guys in your unit or Brigade had the new stuff, what do you think they did? You got it Very Happy It was bad enough that 25th Infantry Division had to post a big note on the homepage of its website telling soldiers that it was a crime to purchase a commercial ACU, even though often the commercial ones were made by the same factories by the same people to the same specs as the stuff made for the Government.

    BTW, this is true for other nations as well. I have a set of German desert trousers going up on eBay in a week or so that came back from Afghanistan. Not standard issue, but first hand info says lots of unofficial stuff was being worn over there by German troops for the same reasons stated in this thread.

    "Genuine" has a very fuzzy meaning these days Wink

    Steve
    YEH...what he said!!!! Very Happy Very Happy


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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by swag Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:12 pm

    I know that the use of commercial items was prevalent during OIF 1, at least with the unit I was in. This was due to the almost none existant supply system which, when it was working, was slooooow. Almost everyone to a man had WileyX glasses. Many folks had commercial bought Gerber's, GPS units, CamelBacks, holster rigs, etc. I personally had Wiley X's I bought online, same with the BlackHawk shoulder/thigh pistol holster, as well as my CamelBack I used for mountain biking. I also had a store bought GPS unit. Nowadays things are different. Again I'm speaking of personal experience with my own unit, which is an aviation unit...we're a different breed with specialized equipment of own. With the advent of the digital camo came the new two piece digital flight suit as well as Generation III AirWarrior. Right before we deployed we were issued the new AirWarrior, which included a lot of things that I had privately purchased before, as well as a bunch of new ACU items. A new digitized CamelBack and holster were but a few of the new items. The ground pounders may still be making private purchases for items but, from my point of view, there is no need to buy something unless the individual just has a preference to buy something. This applies mostly to "customized" items like holsters and such, but the big items like body armor and (again, personal experience) uniforms are obtained thru official gov't channels.
    One other thing, the PX sells all manner of ACU items in Iraq and Asscrackistan.
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    QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF Empty Re: QUESTION about nonissue or commercial items in use in OIF

    Post by Grim Reaper Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:19 am

    AND what is the story on CRYE's MULTI-CAM.....I saw that Delta operators used it & also some British SF guys...to "set them apart" from the reg troops....any ideas on this stuff????

    Steven[/quote]

    Hi Steven

    Reference Brit SF guys using Multi-cam .....I can vouch for that as my Nephew went to Afghan for 6 months and although he isn't SF he was attached to S.A.S. and at the end of the tour they all grouped their photos together and put them on his external hard drive, on his return to England he brought it round when he came to see me, I copied all the pics (about 7,500) and vids (several hundred) onto my external drive. Some of the pics are absolutely amazing really brilliant, I'm so tempted to post them here but just cannot No there's many pics showing guys with all sorts of kit on and most definitely Multi-cam Cool looks grate, also the different array of helmets and webbing is very interesting. Also camouflaged weaponry is really nice.

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