Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Share
    avatar
    masive
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Name : Marc
    Location : Germany
    Registration date : 2016-10-11
    Number of posts : 105

    Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by masive on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:56 am

    I have some Items of the Dutch webbing which was used in the 1980s. Small and Big Pack and water bottle cover.

    My Question: The supporting straps for the big pack are from cloth or are they from the same material as the equipment or were they not used on it?





    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:10 am

    The supporting straps and pack straps are made of webbing. The same type is used for the rubber packs as for the earlier M52 webbing packs. I have seen the rubber packs referred to as PSU 80.

    In practice, soldiers could be issued a mixture of rubber and webbing packs, etc.
    avatar
    masive
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Name : Marc
    Location : Germany
    Registration date : 2016-10-11
    Number of posts : 105

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by masive on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:16 am

    Thank you for the information.


    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:05 pm

    The support straps, left and right pack straps, left and right braces, and the brace attachments were manufactured as late as 1990-91. The very last versions are easy to spot - the webbing is a tighter weave, the colour is a darker forest green, and it appears that the webbing is a poly-cotton blend, rather than pure cotton. Normally these late production items are clearly marked with NSNs and sometimes the date.

    But for practical purposes, I doubt that the late production items saw a whole lot of use - they are usually found in un-issued condition, and by 1992-93, the new DPM equipment was available.

    Glencoe
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Nederland
    Registration date : 2017-10-22
    Number of posts : 37

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Glencoe on Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:25 pm

    I've got a few braces (cross straps) from this period dated 1992, they seem to be somewhat crudely made and prone to fraying. They're also longer than the 1980s and 1950s variants in my collection.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:42 pm

    1992 must be some of the very latest ones to be produced. I think any I have are no later than 1991.

    michelwijnand
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 30
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 370

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by michelwijnand on Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:31 am

    This isn't part of PSU80.
    PSU80 was the trial gear with the Flecktarn stuff, and there was an entirely different harness tested but not approved, it was referred to as "Israelian type", and completely different build that British p37 cut.

    Ostravak
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Czech Republic
    Registration date : 2018-01-08
    Number of posts : 13

    Rubberized large pack M37

    Post by Ostravak on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:05 pm

    Hello,
    several days ago I have received the KL large pack (the latest rubberized version). I have also bought L straps and utility "I" straps. But I don´t know how I should put it together because the loops at the bottom of pack are differently (from canvas M37 large pack) sewn on(better glued on)- in an unnatural direction. Please could you help me how to fasten straps at the bottom of the large pack. Thank you Jiri, sorry for my English

    michelwijnand
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 30
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 370

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:24 pm

    Actually I'm also not 100% sure how the large pack was carried in the 80's as I've never seen it done.
    Maybe like this weird old way, but still not 100% sure how it's attached.
    It looks like the ends of the L-straps are just going through the loops at the bottom of the large pack and then attach to the side buckles of the small pack, but I don't think the L-straps bottom parts are long enough for that



    Ostravak
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Czech Republic
    Registration date : 2018-01-08
    Number of posts : 13

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Ostravak on Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:56 pm

    Hello michelwijnand,
    thank you for information and an interesting foto.
    Did KL have some guidelines or booklets concerning webbing M58(?). How looked for example "battle order", "marching order.."?
    Jiri
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 pm

    You can find some guidelines in the Soldier's Handbook / Handboek voor de Soldaat. There are lots of copies around from different decades.

    Practically speaking, I have never seen a photograph of the M58 packs worn as shown in the early postwar photo of the WE 37 equipment that Michel has shared above.

    michelwijnand
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 30
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 370

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:57 pm

    I actually just asked about this in a Dutch/Belgian facebook group and even veterans couldn't answer.
    Another doublechecked his 1983 handbook and said it didn't mention how to carry it, just like I remember all of my handbooks don't either.

    Dutch army is sure to have found some horribly impractical way to carry it though, as they always did.
    Like the weird way to carry the sleepingbag in front without a dedicated carrier to attach it, still not 100% sure how it went.

    Also, as far as I know the webbing is called M52, as parts appear way before 1958, that was just the name for the newer combat uniform that superceded the wool battledress.
    I have had quite a few bits and pieces dated 1953 and 54.

    I'll try to look over this pack problem later to see if I can find more info or possibly a photo
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:29 pm

    Yes, M52 indeed, I made a typo...

    michelwijnand
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant

    Name : Michel Wijnand
    Age : 30
    Location : The Netherlands
    Registration date : 2016-11-09
    Number of posts : 370

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by michelwijnand on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm

    Oh ok, I've seen people calling it M58 lately so I thought you got in on that trend, no idea why it started Razz

    Also, several answers turned up today.
    Everyone was issued the large pack, but rarely wore it, and some never ever did.
    Someone mentioned how the sleepingbag was carried on the front, but his unit also wore the large pack on the front in some weird way if the sleepingbag wasn't already there.
    Otherwise everyone left them in vehicles

    Of course these were only guys answering about the 80's, so maybe earlier they were actually worn, still didn't find photos of it
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:11 pm

    No way, I would never call it M58! I am a purist! Very Happy

    Glencoe
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Nederland
    Registration date : 2017-10-22
    Number of posts : 37

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Glencoe on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:57 pm

    My dad was issued a set of 80's 'plastic' equipment. He only used the large pack when transferring to another barracks. The large pack would be worn on his back while the small pack was attached elsewere on his webbing. I think it is mentioned in the 'handboek soldaat' edition 1986?.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:36 pm

    Perhaps the small pack might be buckled on the free brace ends (one front, one rear) on either the left or right hip? But then again, Dutch braces might be too short for that to work properly. I do seem to remember this mentioned somewhere in one of the handbooks, but will need to look again.

    Glencoe
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Nederland
    Registration date : 2017-10-22
    Number of posts : 37

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Glencoe on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:43 am

    I can't really find an answer in the handbook.

    With the older m52 equipment the small pack was attached beneath the large pack on the strap-ends (http://www.41dko.eu/psu/). I don't really know how the large pack would be worn, but my guess is that it would have been worn somewhat like the m52. The shelterhalf would be wrapped around the sleepingbag that would be worn on the front.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:56 am

    The large pack can be work just as the small pack, except that the pair of 1-inch support straps is required. It seems that the packs were designed for the blanket or sleeping bag to be worn as a horseshoe roll, but that doesn't appear very often in photographs.

    This one shows the small pack (probably - no support straps visible) worn with a heavy horseshoe roll:


    Ostravak
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Czech Republic
    Registration date : 2018-01-08
    Number of posts : 13

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Ostravak on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:38 am

    Hello,
    I´ve found some photos from 1953.But how can I insert them here (from my PC)?
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:55 am

    From the menu above the reply window, click on the icon called 'host an image'. It will prompt you to upload the photos directly from your PC.

    Ostravak
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Czech Republic
    Registration date : 2018-01-08
    Number of posts : 13

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Ostravak on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:02 am

    Ostravak wrote:Hello,
    I´ve found some photos from 1953.But how can I insert them here (from my PC)?


    Ostravak
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Czech Republic
    Registration date : 2018-01-08
    Number of posts : 13

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Ostravak on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:04 am




    Ostravak
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Location : Czech Republic
    Registration date : 2018-01-08
    Number of posts : 13

    Large pack + small pack

    Post by Ostravak on Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:18 am

    Is it possible that the utility straps are not fastened at the top of the large pack (in "OK" brass clasps) and their free ends are used for the connection with the small pack under the large pack? If the utility straps are put throught both loops at the bottom of the large pack they will be shortened.
    avatar
    Wolverine
    Major
    Major

    Name : Andrew
    Location : Canada
    Registration date : 2014-01-18
    Number of posts : 1006

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Wolverine on Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:31 pm

    Yes, that seems possible.

    I don't think it would be possible to suspend the small pack directly from the ends of the L-shaped pack straps without using the support/utility straps as extensions.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Dutch Web Gear from the 1980s and a question....

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:21 pm