US servicemembers in TAP47/56

Guess this is a good place as any to post this unusual photo of what I believe to be US Marines somewhere is South Korea late '50 early'60s.




                                                                       











S

That's something I've never seen before. Hmm... I wonder what the circumstances were for Marines to be wearing these uniforms. You sure they are Marines?

I think the date is early 1960s, though. These Marines are using the M-14, which started being issued in 1959 or so. Marines, being at the bottom of the new equipment pecking order, didn't get theirs until about 1961/1962 according to the Wiki on the M-14.

Steve

They have to be Americans Steve just from the clean cut appearance. Also, they are not smoking or looking surly like true Europeans would.

That's what I thought too. They have to be Marines.

I am wondering if the packs are French..

They dont look USGI.  

Fairly certain they are Marines; haircuts and covers.. Covers appear to be either olive covers spray painted, or non USGI ..

The first man appears  to be wearing a modded uniform; both smock and trousers..

S

I ask about the Marines thing because they could be Rangers or Airborne. I can't quite tell about the hats, but my first impression is similar to Ripcord's. They do look like the period HBT Marines cap with some sort of improvisational camo on them.

OK, so if they are Marines they either are a super select small group favored with weaponry that their brothers didn't have, making it very late 1950s, or they are Marines without special weapons considerations, making it very early 1960s. I'd lean towards the latter especially since 1962 is sorta a benchmark year for the beginning of the Vietnam War.

Obviously they are not French. Not only are they not chain smoking, but there is no sign of baguettes or croissants. Though those packs do look like they could be holding a week's worth of bouillabaisse

Steve

They look like one of the early US Army LRRP companies to me. The packs look a little big to be the French pack - I thought they might be the M1952 Mountain Rucksack but I'm not overly familiar with the details of those. Interesting that two of them seem to be carrying pistols as well and on the left side! I'm sure there are other pics of this quartet - I recall seeing one where they are front on ...

The only clue on the photo was the word LLRP, so it's very possible they are Rangers or even mountain troops.

I thought Marines because no Ranger would wear a cover like the ones in the photo.


S

Maybe it's just me but they don't look like Marine covers at all - they look like the M-1951 patrol caps favoured by the Rangers. Did the original pic say South Korea because I would placed this as Europe late '50s - early '60s.

To me, it does not look like M51s. I have a dozen M51s and none of them have creases at the same place that 8 point covers have them.. But let's agree to disagee, I dont want to argue over caps.

At least we agree on the timeframe..

The photo had Korean writing and LLRP written on it, so I figured Marines, but Marines could have been in Europe as well.  Every large ship in the Med has Marines on it and Marines are stationed throughout Europe.

I think the clue may be  the packs..

S

Hello.
My understanding was that these were US Army Rangers assigned to Europe prior to Vietnam. The packs are M-1951 Mountain Rucksacks with the hats being hand camouflaged M-1951 patrol caps as used by Rangers and other infantry soldiers in the field at that time. I had read somewhere that these photographs were taken in Germany at the ILLRP School during the early 1960's. M-14 rifles were the standard rifle for this period. Lt. Col. Anthony Herbert mentions his experience commanding a company of Rangers in Europe during this time frame, (Prov. Ranger Platoon, 1st Battle Group (Airborne), 505th Inf., 8th Infantry Div. 1959-1961) and also mentioned many of the courses he and his men attended in his book, "Soldier".
There is a nice illustration of a V Corps LRRP Co. Ranger in Germany, 1961 in the Osprey Elite No.13 "US Army Rangers & LRRP Units 1942-87", written by Gordon Rottman which mentions the unofficial use of French Maroon berets while in the field. It would not be much of a stretch for them to utilize foreign camouflage as well.
Dwayne G.

I've seen that picture before, although I can't find it now. I believe that those who say those are U.S. Army troops are correct. I was able to dig up the following source : http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/gebhardt_LRRP.pdf that describes the tactics and equipment used by LRRP soldiers. The author notes that the European formations made use of French and German uniforms, equipment, and boots (pg 23). Neat photo!

The photo in question was posted on USMF..... I cant find it anymore either..

But I found this one ...Looks like the packs are the same as in the previous photo. And it looks like they are in Northern Europe, so probably Germany..


                                                                 








S

mrf2 wrote:I've seen that picture before, although I can't find it now. I believe that those who say those are U.S. Army troops are correct. I was able to dig up the following source : http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/gebhardt_LRRP.pdf that describes the tactics and equipment used by LRRP soldiers. The author notes that the European formations made use of French and German uniforms, equipment, and boots (pg 23). Neat photo!

Well now, this is VERY interesting to me.  Very.

In my collection I have a German Splinter camo uniform with the name "MOZEY" written in both the jacket and trousers.  The jacket was badged for a 1LT of US 7th Army, complete with US ARMY and name tapes.  All badges are gone, but this type of cloth leaves easily seen traces of stitching so there's no doubt about what was on there.

Research shows the uniform belonged to William B. Mozey, who went on to significant fame as company commander of C Company, 1st Battalion, 8th Cav in Vietnam 1965-1966. Along with B Company he lead the famous Operation Crazy Horse battle.  Even more interesting to me, CPT Mozey personally came up with the motto and logo for "Death From Above".  He retired a LTC.

Up until now I had thought he was a trainer of BW FJ while he was in Germany.  His unit definitely was responsible for overseeing the FJ jump school's work with the US Army.  Trainers at the time routinely wore German uniforms to throw off spies.  However, I'm now wondering if he served in the LRRP and had the uniform as part of that.

When I have some more time, I'll did into that history of LRRP and see if I can connect a few more dots!

Steve