Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

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    Haydamaka
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    Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:04 am

    Hello everybody!

    I think the Belgium topic will be not full without a sample of dog-tag. It was found inside a chest-pocket of "Ike"-type wool jacket.
    Here it is:



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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:49 pm

    Nice tag - here is an earlier style, worn as a bracelet, and never marked in this case.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Tue May 01, 2018 3:33 am

    The Belgian Amy had some french speaking units and others were Dutch speaking,  this is reflected in the Dog tags, some of which say Armee Belge whilst others say Belgisch Leger.  gere are a few variants.  One tag is not on its original chain.  






    See also variation on what information is recorded, Some have religion and blood type, Others religion only and one rocords neither.
    The chain is also attached in a variety of ways. Plenty of opportinities here to start a collection of all the varities?
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Tue May 01, 2018 5:50 pm

    Wolverine,
    Antarmike,

    Gents, thanks a lot for your contributions!
    It was very interesting to see more info and details on the pics above!
    The Belgium topic became more informative due to our efforts! :-)

    It was a surprise for me to learn, that Belgium dog-tags are not bilingual, but either Flemmisch or Vallonian.
    Interesting distinctive sets of info on the dog-tags, probably depend on the year of a certain metal plate.

    I remember, French troops also used ID-tags on bracelets in the early years...

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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Wed May 02, 2018 3:36 am

    Andy Belgian practice has changed over the years 2nd Commando regiment for example was formed as a Bi-lingual unit but from 1982 became  French speaking unit.

    I stand to be corrected but I believe 1st and 3rd Parachute battallions are Dutch ( Flemish) speaking now.


    Some background Information here:-

    www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/be-personnel-language.htm

    Some of my Dog Tags can be dated because the Service number of the soldier is preceeded by the year he (she) joined the forces.

    Your tag is 1964,  I have tags for 1962 and 1954 among those pictured.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Wed May 02, 2018 5:34 am

    Found I had posted image of same tag twice....here is the one that should have been there instead



    Note other Belgisch Leger (Dutch Language) tags spell Catholic with a K (Kath)  but on this tag it is Cath with a C .
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 6:18 am

    Thanks a lot, Mike!
    Very interesting information!
    Especially the pic of ID tag of the year 1990 (birth date May 22, 1968) - it shows Rh+ as well.
    And, as you have noticed French spelling of religion instead of the Dutch one.

    I also noticed that those tags, which bear the blood group, are all "0" (First group of blood).
    Very uniform blood...)))
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Wed May 02, 2018 6:29 am

    Haydamaka wrote:Thanks a lot, Mike!
    Very interesting information!
    Especially the pic of ID tag of the year 1990 (birth date May 22, 1968) - it shows Rh+ as well.
    And, as you have noticed French spelling of religion instead of the Dutch one.

    I also noticed that those tags, which bear the blood group, are all "0" (First group of blood).
    Very uniform blood...)))
    I have just bought another (belisch Leger), the image I bought from is not clear but it looks as if it might be A for blood tyoe. Will post a picture when it arrives from Belgium.

    O+ is the most common blood type in Belgium 38% , followed by A+ 34%.... O- 7%
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 6:50 am

    Sorry, Mike, maybe you mean 7% for blood group B, not O?


    Last edited by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 6:55 am

    Antarmike wrote:

    O+ is the most common blood type in Belgium 38% , followed by A+ 34%.... O- 7%


    Sorry, Mike, maybe you mean 7% for blood group B, not O?

    Looking forward to seeing the photo of that ID-tag to arrive from Belgium!

    Mike, what is the typical price for such Belgian "dog-tags", just for understanding the cost range?
    If it is not a secret, of course! :-)
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Wed May 02, 2018 7:32 am

    Haydamaka wrote:
    Antarmike wrote:

    O+ is the most common blood type in Belgium 38% , followed by A+ 34%.... O- 7%


    Sorry, Mike, maybe you mean 7% for blood group B, not O?

    Looking forward to seeing the photo of that ID-tag to arrive from Belgium!

    Mike, what is the typical price for such Belgian "dog-tags", just for understanding the cost range?
    If it is not a secret, of course! :-)
    7% for O Rhesus negative. B Rhesus positive 8.6% B Rhesus negative 1.5%

    I do not pay more than 10 euro for one, but I often see chancers trying to sell for more.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 8:58 am

    Thanks a lot for your answers, Mike!

    Do you collect only Belgian dog-tags, or from the other countries as well?
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Wolverine on Wed May 02, 2018 9:05 am

    As with anything, the price for a set of tags can vary pretty widely with circumstance. By the time the tags reach Ebay, the price has increased a fair bit. There are a lot of these to be found in markets in Belgium, but of course, that only helps if you happen to be in Belgium...
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 9:13 am

    Thanks, Andrew!
    I asked, because I wondered about the range of prices for such dog-tags: ten Euro or tens of Euros...

    Of course, the condition of the pieces matters, but sometimes one can face with a paradox, when some artefacts in the country of origin cost more, than on a foreign market.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Wed May 02, 2018 9:52 am

    Haydamaka wrote:Thanks a lot for your answers, Mike!

    Do you collect only Belgian dog-tags, or from the other countries as well?

    I don't particularly collect dog tags.  My main focus is Belgian Equipmemt from early fifties up to around 1995.

    To explain some years ago I bought an Ex ABL Minerva Land Rover, that had been owned by the ABL from 1952 until its release in 1995.
    Initially I just wanted a few items to "dress up" the Minerva at shows, but I have sort of caught a Belgian bug, and now my collections includes uniforms. webbing, weapons, munitions mines / grenades  mess equipment, so it ranges from the humblest Belgian tin opener, to Blindicide rocket launcher and rockets.   taking in jack Knives, sub machine guns, pistols, gas masks, Radio gear, field telephones, Maps, Manuals and handbooks,  compasses and Rifle grenades, pocket hangers (breloques/ borsthanger) amunnition boxes, whistles, tents, ponchos and helmets.

    What started with a token dog tag for the collection has grown as it becomes more evident what variety  of tags is out there.  But the collection of dog tags tries to span soldiers who could have gone through the war and still in the ABL into the fifties and sixties, as well as conscipts serving just two or three years in the late 80's  

    Now that EU has stuck its oar into the UK deactivated weapons market, and I can no longer obtain Old Spec deactications,  (and having no interest in welded up door stops, that is all that is on offer now,)  I have strated collecting smaller and smaller, less obvious items as and when they come up.   I guess I am now looking for some of the rarer blood types on Dog tags, and not just buying every one I see.  By focus remains Belgish leger 1952-95 though but I have some older items that would still have been in current use in 1952, and I have allowed myself a few items that possible are just a bit too late but help build up a story of how things have changed within Belgian forces.

    If it is Belgian and it intersts me I will buy it!
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Wolverine on Wed May 02, 2018 10:35 am

    Haydamaka wrote: Of course, the condition of the pieces matters, but sometimes one can face with a paradox, when some artefacts  in the country of origin cost more, than on a foreign market.

    Yes, this is very often the case.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Wed May 02, 2018 5:32 pm

    Antarmike wrote:My main focus is Belgian Equipmemt from early fifties up to around 1995.
    ... I have allowed myself a few items that possible are just a bit too late but help build up a story of how things have changed within Belgian forces.
    If it is Belgian and it intersts me I will buy it!

    Thanks for interesting details, Mike!
    I think Belgian topic is somewhy underestimated, though this country and its militaria are very interesting and worth collecting!

    Do you collect Belgian combat boots?
    Some time ago I did some research and wrote a series of reviews about military footwear of some countries, and Belgium as well.

    One can find Belgium army boots reviews on: http://cartalana.com/002-content.php
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Wed May 02, 2018 5:57 pm

    Haydamaka wrote:
    Antarmike wrote:My main focus is Belgian Equipmemt from early fifties up to around 1995.
    ... I have allowed myself a few items that possible are just a bit too late but help build up a story of how things have changed within Belgian forces.
    If it is Belgian and it intersts me I will buy it!

    Thanks for interesting details, Mike!
    I think Belgian topic is somewhy underestimated, though this country and its militaria are very interesting and worth collecting!

    Do you collect Belgian combat boots?
    Some time ago I did some research and wrote a series of reviews about military footwear of some countries, and Belgium as well.

    One can find Belgium army boots reviews on: http://cartalana.com/002-content.php
    I would like to, I have not found any in my size yet. (well that is not true a bought a pair, from Belgium, but as it was being shipped across, someone stole them. The post office notified the seller that an empty box had been found at a sorting office, and they were returning the empty packaging to him. I got a refund, and a dishonest postman somewhere is walking around in a nice pair of Para-commando boots. The search continues. Recently found another pair, but the seller would not take Paypal, and demanded internaional Bank Transfer, which my bank makes a very high charge for, so I thought total price was too much for what i was getting..... I do not understand why so many Belgians will not get themselves a Paypal account....
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Thu May 03, 2018 5:13 pm

    Mike,
    It was sad to read about thi story with the boots stolen at a sorting office, and I wonder such things are possible in modern Europe.

    I have sevearl pairs of Belgian combat boots, from the earlier Solidor boots with inner layer of smooth grey leather and the stitched sole to the classic RUGAK boots of the 1980-90s, with glued sole, and the previous model with stitched and glued sole.

    I have to say that Belgian boots size charts in early and recent boots do not match.
    thus, recent RUGAK boots of size 42 and widths 7 fit me well, but the older SOLIDOR boots of size 43 and widths 8 are too small and narow for me.

    So purchasing boots online, without trying them on your feet, in the evening time (when the feet are wider due to the all-day blood circulation) can cause unpleasant surprize with mismatching boots.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Thu May 03, 2018 5:51 pm

    Mike,

    On https://www.vintagechicbruxelles.com/listing/527957483/belgium-army-identity-tag-dog-tag

    I found a photo of Belgian dog-tag of the year 1954, it differs from your sample with date birth
    (25 Mar 1934) instead of  number "270532" (social security number?).

    I suppose the owner didn't have that number, so his date bith was indicated for identification purpose.


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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Fri May 04, 2018 4:39 am

    Haydamaka wrote:Mike,

    On https://www.vintagechicbruxelles.com/listing/527957483/belgium-army-identity-tag-dog-tag

    I found a photo of Belgian dog-tag of the year 1954, it differs from your sample with date birth
    (25 Mar 1934) instead of  number "270532" (social security number?).

    I suppose the owner didn't have that number, so his date bith was indicated for identification purpose.


    I believe that my tag shows date of birth  27-05-32 or 27th May 1932.  This would make the conscript 21 or 22 on being called up.  This is late normally being registered for draft at 16 but not normally being called up until 18 to 19 years old, but deferment of call up was possible.  It seems likely to me that this is still a date of birth, but given in numerical form rather than as a witten name of the month.

    Deferments were granted for a variety of reasons. The sole supporter of parents or siblings, the oldest son in a family having five or more children, or anyone with unusual problems was deferred. Merchant marines, coal miners, and those in high-priority jobs were deferred or exempted. Students may be deferred on an annual basis until they had completed secondary or technical school. They may start a university course and be deferred while they complete the course in a specified time period.




    Last edited by Antarmike on Fri May 04, 2018 4:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Fri May 04, 2018 4:51 am

    Antarmike wrote:
    I believe that my tag shows date of birth  27-05-32 or 27th May 1932.

    I think you are right. Such supposition really makes sense.

    But this could mean that the rules of the "dog-tags" marking  were not so strict.

    Moreover, the ID tag of Dedecker F. also bears blood group "0" as distinct from the one of Lefevre M R F.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Fri May 04, 2018 4:56 am

    I note that on the two halves of the dog tag your last photograp the service number has been incorrectly stamped on one break of half. Originally stamped 21622 it has one character overstamped to give 21632.

    I think that it a clue has to how imprecise things could be when the tags were stamped.  So use of a different date format does not surprise me.

    (which is why I find searching out oddities and variations as an entertaing pastime.)

    Another view of your last image showing 3 overstamped with a 2



    Last edited by Antarmike on Fri May 04, 2018 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Antarmike on Fri May 04, 2018 6:40 am

    A couple more images from the web, where the age of the recruit appears to be 22 years old, so 22 does not seem at all odd to me




    And another O+ (Rhesus positive). And a totally different placement on the tag of the service number, on one half.
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    Re: Belgian dog-tag of the year 1964

    Post by Haydamaka on Fri May 04, 2018 5:50 pm

    Mike, I found on http://paracdo1968.skynetblogs.be/archive/2009/11/16/ma-plaque-d-identification-militaire.html
    the pic of the belgian dog-tag with convex type of inscription instead of usual bulged-in inscriptions....

    Or this is just an optical illusion and the inscriptions are just bulged-in...

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