German sniper clothing and concealment items

Time for some lesser seen German camo stuff.

First a Scharrer smock uniform, this sniper type is different than the regular type in that it has more armpockets, hidden buttons on al lpocketflaps, sidepockets with clips, and a number of other nice details.
There might also have been foam padding in the shoulders tha tmight have been removed, as there are 2 slits on the inside of the shoulders where it could have been taken out.





















Then some 3 mesh 3D camo balaclavas, spring/summer, fall and snow camouflages, they have a flap that can be closed over the exposed face part, and elastic for whatever reason.











Then the same 3 camo types but as ponchos with attached hood, open sides that are just closed with 2 straps with snaps per side, the hoods are the same as the balaclavas.





















Then a few ghillie suits, all made by Scharrer, the first one is from 2002, I didn't even know they existed that early but it's nice to have it in the same year as my smock trousers.
Some materials on this early one ar different than the later ones, the paracord strings are a softer material, the 2 front buckles are of a different make and the straps with which they are sewn on are of a different material,
there's also no horizontal seam across the center of the back, and it has a simpler tag without NSN and all that, somewhat similar to the top part of the label in the smock trousers.
This one is also the most used out of the 3, it has holes here and there and it's shorter than the others as the lower part has just been ripped away in pieces it seems.










The 2nd one is a snowcamo ghillie, can't say I've seen a lot of those! It's from 2008, made with later rmaterials and has white strings and strips of white fabric attached as camouflage.









And the last one is from 2012 and has just a small amount of mostly bright colored jute attached, the darkgreen paracord bits are actually original Scharrer attached, same as the 2 above.









I believe there's also a newer type of smock uniform that was introduced sometime in the early 2010's with many similar features as found on the newer infantry clothing like the Kampfanzug Jacke Lang and Kampfhose,
but I haven't been able to find this yet, no good photos of any either.

Neat stuff! I especially like those 3D leafy ponchos. That looks like a very... engineered smock- funny because of all the discussion around the Swiss TAZ57 stuff and how ungainly it was; it seems there will still be select mission roles for a kit-carrying outer layer.

Awesome finds! I've seen a single smock before but having the full uniform and all the ghille covers and ponchos is a rare ensemble! Do you know if there was a tropentarn version of that Scharrer uniform?

Thanks!
About Tropentarn, I've never seen a sniper uniform in that camo, in the few pics I have of snipers in deserts they just wear either the regular summer uniform or
the Scharrer combatpants with the strap around the legs and whatever shirt isn't very well visible under their ghilliesuits.

And apparently all the 3D stuff's material is made by JAC Camo Systems, and I think Scharrer just got contracted to make a cheaper cut out of the materials, but the
material itself is very interesting and the pattern very intricate. I still have to find any photos of it in use though, but I at least know it is in use, as at least the snow poncho
came from someone in active service, who I also asked for a spring/summer one, he sais him and others in his unit were still using them so they couldn't sell them.
There's also even bigger nets in these 3 colors, I think he said 2X3 meter or so, while these smaller ones are about 150X200 when spread open. The bigger ones don't have
a hole in the middle with a hood.

And I have several normal non-sniper smocks too, this one has so much extra features, the others just seem simple and boring when compared, some real thought went into
this, but it would be too cumbersome for regular infantry use, like you say it's just good for a very select task.


Oh and I forgot about this, a simple camo net made by MFH that I got for free from one guy I bought most of the ponchos from, not issued, but these and similar ones can be
seen in many photos in use to camouflage either guns or spotter scopes and tripods.

Oh and I just found this, pants for the late type sniper suit from Wattana, which has a number of features that also appear on the 2012 model of combat uniforms.

Awesome stuff! I have not seen all of the "sniper" camo systems. Really neat snow one! There's a guy who has the full Ghillie system on German eBay right now, but the price is too high IMHO. Congrats on having all of that.

The so-called "KSK" 5FTD Troppentarn smock you have is one of the harder ones to get a hold of, for sure. These were widely issued in Afghanistan, not just KSK. There's 2 different cuts plus some very early 2002 variants. It seems they were made in small batches, so there's not all that many years of production on the labels. IIRC 2012 is the last year, but I am not 100% sure.

For sure the current IdZ uniform replaces both the standard and the "KSK" type. I don't know what year the uniform was finally adopted, but 2012-2016 it underwent many changes. 2017 might have been the last year they experimented before going into large scale production.

Under the old system (prior to 2014) the standard temperate uniform was one design, the tropical and desert versions were a second design. The special KSK uniforms, for whatever reason, had the standard and desert versions in one design, the tropical in a second design and in ripstop. IdZ appears to mirror the KSK concept, but now both desert and tropical are in ripstop cloth vs. temperate in smooth cloth.

Which means we have this:

5FTD Flecktarn (IdZ) - smooth cloth for temperate environments. I don't have pictures of the tags, but my set is in US Customs right now so I'll soon know

3FTD Tropentarn (idZ) - ripstop for desert environments, same cut as 5FTD Flecktarn. Cloth is 52% Aramid, 38% Viskose FR, 9% Polyester, 1% fiber for the ripstop grid. Has Permethrin

5FTD Tropentarn (idZ) - ripstop for warm/green environments, modified 5FTD Flecktarn cut (suspenders). Cloth is 49% Aramid, 49% Viskose, and 2% "other fiber" (I presume elastic). Has Permethrin


Your Wattana trousers appear to be standard issue 5FTD Troppentarn (IdZ). But I don't know much about the uniform variants since they are highly controlled, so I could be mistaken.

Steve

Thanks! Do you have a link for the ebay one? Now I'm curious.

I think you're using the term Tropentarn wrong though, in different TL documents they refer to Tropen as a type of pants, like with the different fabrics as you say, but Tropentarn is actually just an unofficial name for the 3FTD pattern with green in it. Other than that there's just the 5FTD with the unofficial name Flecktarn and then the light 3FTD pattern that is officially named Wüstentarn.
Here's a link to one for the SF cut pants, I sadly haven't been able to find any sniperstuff TL's yet.

https://www.yumpu.com/de/document/read/29013616/tl-8415-0294-lh-bundeswehr

As far as the 2010's uniforms go, I'm actually working on those sets too, and will post my stuff in a seperate thread here when I get enough parts.
It's funny to me that there are 2 different cuts of combat clothing sets, 1 produced by Wahler and Scharrer (I believe Wahler is the designer of it), and another made by Hexonia, Blücher and again Scharrer.

I believe the Wahler outer layer combat clothing set consists of just a Kampfjacke Kurz, Kampfjacke Lang and Kampfhose, while the Hexonia type also has an under armor shirt.

Though the Wahler type seems to have been earlier made, as I've seen parts of this dated 2011 already, and of the Hexonia set I've seen some pieces that are labeled as Model 2012, others that don't have that on the label seem to be a later type with some changes.
The Wahler sets seem to top out at the year 2017 though, while the other set is still in production, still weird that they were in parallel production for so long

michelwijnand wrote:Thanks! Do you have a link for the ebay one? Now I'm curious.

Sure! It ended without a buyer:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125694062164?mkpid=0&emsid=e11304.m43.l3160&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=4e17c4eba1814e098b0d6450bee2e729&bu=43177736521&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20230114093620&segname=11304&nma=true&si=oHgZV27S0cayG0BdDIzXeMD1gEU%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I think you're using the term Tropentarn wrong though, in different TL documents they refer to Tropen as a type of pants, like with the different fabrics as you say, but Tropentarn is actually just an unofficial name for the 3FTD pattern with green in it. Other than that there's just the 5FTD with the unofficial name Flecktarn and then the light 3FTD pattern that is officially named Wüstentarn.

They may have changed it more recently, but for a long time officially the 5FTD in desert cut referred to as "Tropen", which makes sense as it was issued for warm climates only. Here is a document from 2006 for the jacket/shirt:

Here's a link to one for the SF cut pants, I sadly haven't been able to find any sniperstuff TL's yet.

https://www.yumpu.com/de/document/read/29013616/tl-8415-0294-lh-bundeswehr

Very nice! I'm downloading those for my archives ;-)

As far as the 2010's uniforms go, I'm actually working on those sets too, and will post my stuff in a seperate thread here when I get enough parts.
It's funny to me that there are 2 different cuts of combat clothing sets, 1 produced by Wahler and Scharrer (I believe Wahler is the designer of it), and another made by Hexonia, Blücher and again Scharrer.

I don't know why there are two cuts. They are Germans, so I am sure they have a reason

I believe the Wahler outer layer combat clothing set consists of just a Kampfjacke Kurz, Kampfjacke Lang and Kampfhose, while the Hexonia type also has an under armor shirt.

Though the Wahler type seems to have been earlier made, as I've seen parts of this dated 2011 already, and of the Hexonia set I've seen some pieces that are labeled as Model 2012, others that don't have that on the label seem to be a later type with some changes.
The Wahler sets seem to top out at the year 2017 though, while the other set is still in production, still weird that they were in parallel production for so long

The experimental stuff from 2011 through about 2016 is all over the place. In addition to the big three you mentioned, there's also Wattana. They did one of the original 2011 "Übung" uniforms and also more recent stuff.

I have solid documentation of all items produces from 2011-2014 experimental uniforms. I don't have all the wet weather stuff, but other than that I have just about everything (including underwear!).

I haven't done a detailed analysis of 2016-present as I don't have many pieces in hand yet and what I do have is somewhat confusing.

Steve

Fantastic to see all these items.

I'm wondering whether the 2002 ghillie cape has been deliberately ripped, in order to break the straight edge at the bottom that would be noticeable when kneeling or standing.

By the way, there's a difference between 'Tropen' and 'Tropentarn' which is where perhaps some of the confusion is originating. Tropen is like the British army's use of 'tropical' and seems to refer to the weight and/or the cut of the fabric, whilst Tropentarn is the camouflage pattern (i.e. 3 FTd).

Dom Hyde wrote:Fantastic to see all these items.

I'm wondering whether the 2002 ghillie cape has been deliberately ripped, in order to break the straight edge at the bottom that would be noticeable when kneeling or standing.

By the way, there's a difference between 'Tropen' and 'Tropentarn' which is where perhaps some of the confusion is originating. Tropen is like the British army's use of 'tropical' and seems to refer to the weight and/or the cut of the fabric, whilst Tropentarn is the camouflage pattern (i.e. 3 FTd).

Thanks for pointing that out. You and Michael are, of course, correct. Late night when I posted that

Steve

Oh yeah good one, the British tropical name is actually a very good way to explain the difference in terme, I didn't think of that haha.

And about the ghillie, I don't think it's ripped to change the outline, as it's actually supposed to be filled up with jute strings and other artifiacil camo materials and
also vegatation to do just that.


And I thought I'd might as well add this to this thread as well, eventhough this came from Dutch issue, the Germans also use this type of pack in different variations and colors.
I've actually seen a green one that had a label inside which said it was military-contracted by Lindnerhof Taktik.
Anyway, this is an Eberlestock G4 Operator pack, which has a seperate compartment for carrying a long rifle, with 2 cover parts of which the bottom one can be folded inwards
and the top one can also be detached.

And something more to add, a storage bag for the whole set of 3 3D camo ponchos, 3 balaclavas and 3 large nets. This bag is pretty big, like 50X30X10 or so.

Found something that might be sniper related but not too sure as I don't know exactly what it is.
It looks like an arm-adminpouch at first glance actually doesn't have any compartment that can hold maps or papers at all, just 2 velcro straps and a velcro flap that opens to reveal some
small bits of velcro half sewn onto a velcro panel.
It might not even be meant to wear on an arm at all, but on a buttstock of a weapon instead.