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Hello everyone,
I've been reading through this forum, and I've noticed a recurring topic about the distinction between issued and commercial camouflage pieces. It seems that some of you may have differing opinions on whether commercial items are used by the armed forces, and this leads to questions about their authenticity or collectibility.
I'd like to share my thoughts to provide a better understanding, but I'm also open to corrections if I'm mistaken. I've gathered my insights from owning various camouflage items and closely observing the situation in Indonesia.
Background:
To start this discussion, let me provide some background first. This post will focus only on camouflage used by the Armed Forces, excluding political camo.
Indonesia, being a vast archipelago, has surplus stores in almost every major city. These stores can be categorized as follows:
1. Army Base Koperasi store, or privately-owned stores by the army for the army.
For example, a Kopassus’s or Kopasgat's Koperasi. They provide uniforms and accept made-by-order for internal use only. I have two uniforms made from Koperasi, best examples were requesting a totally different cut in extra-large sizing.
2. Surplus stores or "Toko Kaporlap" as we call them here.
These privately-owned surplus stores are usually located near army bases and provide a wide range of surplus items such as backpacks, uniforms, MREs, shovels, and more. As expected, they also sell original issued uniforms made by reputable manufacturers like Sritex, which could be in excess or for any specific reasons.
3. Third-party sellers.
They often operate online only, mostly by person. But they also most often see selling items that I referred to as pure commercial items. I will explain below.
Categories
After understanding the background, I personally categorize the uniforms into three main groups:
1. Issued.
Made under a government contract, these are the most straightforward to identify. Issued items will have dates, logos (AU-AL-AD-Polri), and products from reputable manufacturers like Sritex will often have care instructions.
2. Private Purchased.
A service member can get an extra uniform whether from Army Koperasi Store, Surplus store, or Private tailor. As explained above, they can request a uniform from Koperasi like a different cut or bigger sizes.
Now, the Private tailor comes into play. Private tailor means they made the uniform based on measure/request. The reason may be that they don't have ready stock in Koperasi or surplus stores. So they made the uniform there. Private tailors usually have a label. (picture below).
For example Kutaraja Tailor and Yudha Tailor (Aceh), Gentur Tailor (Jakarta), Yarden Tailor (Jogjakarta), Bhara Abadi (Semarang).
I consider this NOT a “commercial” piece but an aftermarket piece. Still, worn by the serviceman and often patched up. Private purchased.
3. Presented.
Now as we know, in Indonesia we have still developing many-many camouflage by private parties. "Presented" here means they are run into the testing phase by the Armed forces, or issued only a specific unit. This camo can't be bought anywhere, and only specific members can have them.
For example, we have Gegana-Poso by Molay, SAMAR-Komando camouflage for SAT-81 (other SAMAR also in testing for another unit), SAT-81 Black Multicam by Cartenz, RIMBA on trial by Kopasgat. If you have one of these, it's also not a commercial piece since it's not sold publicly.
4. Commercial.
Lastly, commercial items. In first place, I really don't know any reason why some people created the uniform and sold it publicly. Since it's prohibited for civilians to wear this item. Often only available via website/social media via third-party sellers.
The main differences are, the jacket cut didn't make sense and the camouflage print is very crude (not much detail and often wrong color).
This, I prefer you guys stay away from it. Even if there is a possibility this item was bought and worn by a service member, that's an exception if comes with provenance. But most of the time, I consider it as commercial.
Conclusion
In conclusion, based on the examples shared here in other posts, I consider the camouflages as privately purchased or aftermarket items, rather than commercial pieces. They are still used within the armed forces but not created by official government manufacturers.
I hope we gain a better understanding of the different types of camouflage in Indonesia from my brief post.
Many thanks for reading, Zhen.
I've been reading through this forum, and I've noticed a recurring topic about the distinction between issued and commercial camouflage pieces. It seems that some of you may have differing opinions on whether commercial items are used by the armed forces, and this leads to questions about their authenticity or collectibility.
I'd like to share my thoughts to provide a better understanding, but I'm also open to corrections if I'm mistaken. I've gathered my insights from owning various camouflage items and closely observing the situation in Indonesia.
Background:
To start this discussion, let me provide some background first. This post will focus only on camouflage used by the Armed Forces, excluding political camo.
Indonesia, being a vast archipelago, has surplus stores in almost every major city. These stores can be categorized as follows:
1. Army Base Koperasi store, or privately-owned stores by the army for the army.
For example, a Kopassus’s or Kopasgat's Koperasi. They provide uniforms and accept made-by-order for internal use only. I have two uniforms made from Koperasi, best examples were requesting a totally different cut in extra-large sizing.
2. Surplus stores or "Toko Kaporlap" as we call them here.
These privately-owned surplus stores are usually located near army bases and provide a wide range of surplus items such as backpacks, uniforms, MREs, shovels, and more. As expected, they also sell original issued uniforms made by reputable manufacturers like Sritex, which could be in excess or for any specific reasons.
3. Third-party sellers.
They often operate online only, mostly by person. But they also most often see selling items that I referred to as pure commercial items. I will explain below.
Categories
After understanding the background, I personally categorize the uniforms into three main groups:
1. Issued.
Made under a government contract, these are the most straightforward to identify. Issued items will have dates, logos (AU-AL-AD-Polri), and products from reputable manufacturers like Sritex will often have care instructions.
2. Private Purchased.
A service member can get an extra uniform whether from Army Koperasi Store, Surplus store, or Private tailor. As explained above, they can request a uniform from Koperasi like a different cut or bigger sizes.
Now, the Private tailor comes into play. Private tailor means they made the uniform based on measure/request. The reason may be that they don't have ready stock in Koperasi or surplus stores. So they made the uniform there. Private tailors usually have a label. (picture below).
For example Kutaraja Tailor and Yudha Tailor (Aceh), Gentur Tailor (Jakarta), Yarden Tailor (Jogjakarta), Bhara Abadi (Semarang).
I consider this NOT a “commercial” piece but an aftermarket piece. Still, worn by the serviceman and often patched up. Private purchased.
3. Presented.
Now as we know, in Indonesia we have still developing many-many camouflage by private parties. "Presented" here means they are run into the testing phase by the Armed forces, or issued only a specific unit. This camo can't be bought anywhere, and only specific members can have them.
For example, we have Gegana-Poso by Molay, SAMAR-Komando camouflage for SAT-81 (other SAMAR also in testing for another unit), SAT-81 Black Multicam by Cartenz, RIMBA on trial by Kopasgat. If you have one of these, it's also not a commercial piece since it's not sold publicly.
4. Commercial.
Lastly, commercial items. In first place, I really don't know any reason why some people created the uniform and sold it publicly. Since it's prohibited for civilians to wear this item. Often only available via website/social media via third-party sellers.
The main differences are, the jacket cut didn't make sense and the camouflage print is very crude (not much detail and often wrong color).
This, I prefer you guys stay away from it. Even if there is a possibility this item was bought and worn by a service member, that's an exception if comes with provenance. But most of the time, I consider it as commercial.
Conclusion
In conclusion, based on the examples shared here in other posts, I consider the camouflages as privately purchased or aftermarket items, rather than commercial pieces. They are still used within the armed forces but not created by official government manufacturers.
I hope we gain a better understanding of the different types of camouflage in Indonesia from my brief post.
Many thanks for reading, Zhen.
