Help: Lizard Pattern ID

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    stuka
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    Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by stuka on Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:43 am

    Help on this Lizard Pattern. A friend who have this want to ID which country this specific lizard and cut comes from? Said to have a Large number 4 on the tag and ink stamp but can't make what they are.









    Angola, perhaps?

    Looking forward for your help.

    Thanks!

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:37 pm

    Can you take a picture of the ink stamps? There are two possibilities I can think of:

    1. Israel reissue. About the best condition I've seen for one, and the velcro is something I haven't seen before, so I have some doubts. But they marked things with black ink and it should be easy to tell with a pic if the stamps at the neck are Israeli. From what I can tell the ink stamps are not inconsistent with Israeli.

    2. Morocco. They use a uniform that is made in France. It is pretty much identical to the TAP 47/56 model worn by French troops at the time.

    Steve

    stuka
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by stuka on Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:20 pm

    Hi Steve,

    Here's what I got from the owner of this lizard shirt:

    All it has are ink stamps and a small green tag with an ink stamped "42" on it, which I assume is the size. There is another retangular ink stamp on the back of one of the chest pockets but it's too faded to read. I tried dampening it to make it darker but it didn't work. This stamp is just too faded.



    Detail of one of the chest pockets. All the front pockets are pretty big, and have pockets within pockets. As can be seen, all the pockets have two rows of male snaps, similar to that of the US WW2 M-42 jump jacket. Actually, this kinda does look like a para jacket.




    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:39 pm

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is a French surplus 47/56 jacket sold and reissued to Israel. Excellent condition too. I've seen a few of these, one in my hands, and they were beat to Hell!

    Steve

    stuka
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by stuka on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:31 am

    Thanks, Steve! Really appreciate.

    vonstuck
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by vonstuck on Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:54 pm

    Hello
    Sorry, for me it is not Israeli stamps and it is not a French TAP56 jacket
    Following Israeli stamps and all garments have also French manufacturer stamps
    The garment is not French army fabric
    The pattern is different and the jacket has not the zippered pocket under the left pocket (right on the picture) (did the jacket have the zippered pocket under the left pocket? Not easy to see on picture)
    Please, can you take a picture of the rear of the jacket for see a bigger part of the pattern?
    Thank you in advance
    Gilles




    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:38 pm

    Thanks for your comments Gilles!

    The jacket does have a zippered pocket under the left breast pocket. However, now that I look at it more closely, the pockets are sewn flat to the jacket and not billowed. This means it is 100% sure it isn't French. I do not have more than one example of a Moroccan uniform, but the one I do have has billowed pockets too. It has a cloth size tag in the neck, but no ink stamps like this one.

    So I think now it is safe to say it isn't French and probably not Moroccan. I think the key to this is the ink stamps, which unfortunately are unclear but fortunately are quite unique.

    Steve

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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:27 am

    I forgot I have a Moroccan desert set to look at as well. It also has billowed pockets. So unless the Moroccans switched to flat pockets, this jacket probably isn't Moroccan either.

    So if it isn't French or Moroccan, what could it be? Certainly looks like military issue of some sort. But off the top of my head I can't think of anybody that uses a 47/56 style uniform.

    Steve

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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by Flecktarn92 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:14 am

    the buttons on the pocket flaps look Dutch, as well as the collared ones. Perhaps a colony of the Netherlands or a country which bought material from them?

    filupe
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by filupe on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:55 am

    I'm with vonstuck - Israeli re-issues are usually well marked with the 'Tzahal' stamp. The red stripes look a little too deep and vivid to be of French origin and then there's the crooked stitching on one of the pocket edges ...

    I'm thinking it might be a Far East copy for a French-aligned country such as Cameroon ...

    fourtycoats
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by fourtycoats on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:27 pm

    I have a suit which is identical to this jacket with flat pockets on the RHS but it has a billowed pocket on the LHS. My jacket has no stamps but it came directly from an officer in the Morroccan army.

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:29 am

    That's very odd! OK, that confirms (to me, at least) that there are some variants out there. And I just noticed my Moroccan Desert set has a similar stamp!! I didn't even think to check int the Desert model. Stupid me :p Not a bunch like in the above pictured jacket, but just one. Specifically the one to the lower left of the size tag. As far as I know that is the official military stamp of Morocco.

    So it looks like it is Moroccan. Which is good, because if it wasn't I'd really be curious about this one!

    My guess is this is a more recent production. It has velcro on the pocket, for example, and appears to be simplified.

    And fourtycoats, make sure you check your email!! Something important was sent to you by two different people in the last few days. Time is running out to act.

    Steve

    fourtycoats
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    Re: Help: Lizard Pattern ID

    Post by fourtycoats on Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:35 pm

    I have nothing unexpected in my e-mails Steve and I checked the spam files. Do you mean me or Brencam as I know he was looking for some LM.

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