Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

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    CollectinSteve
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    Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:43 am

    Here are all the uniforms I know that exist in Austrian Dot Camo.  I don't have time to take pictures of my stuff, yet, but I have noted an * before each one that I have in my collection.  At the very least I can answer questions about it fairly easily:

    Uniforms
    *KAZ57 - original uniform made for approximately one year.  I have had several parkas in this pattern, but I have never once seen the trousers in good photos or in person.  There are tons of interesting features, but the easiest to note are foliage loops and full collar with hood.  Original ones had no epaulettes, however they were later sewn on to conform to new standards for rank.

    *KAZ?? (I call it KAZ58) - appears to be a non-designated transitionary uniform made for the year of 1959 only.  It basically has some KAZ57 and some KAZ59 features which neither of the other uniforms combines (like epaulettes but with snaps like KAZ57 instead of buttons like KAZ59).  I have the parka and trousers.  Easy identification features are hood without collar and snaps all over the place.  Snaps are opposite of norm with the male side attached to the exposed side, female on the interior side.  Trousers follow with same features.  The only ones I have ever seen are the ones I have, though I've had about a half dozen of the parkas.

    *KAZ59 - common uniform consisting of long parka and trousers.  Easy identification features are non-pleated billowed pockets and buttons on parka, integrated belt and button leg adjustments on trousers.  Trousers are pretty hard to find or find in decent condition.

    *KAZ69 - final version of the uniform.  Short two pocket hooded jacket with flat pockets.  Trousers have button down belt loops and no leg adjustment tabs.  Officially worn until 1975, unofficially worn by reserves for a few years, worn by OPFOR well into the 1990s.

    KAZ57 Armored Troops - it is documented to exist, but I've never seen either piece.

    *KAZ59 Armored Troops - seen from time to time, though hard to get in complete and good shape.  Often incorrectly described as "airborne" or some other such nonsense.  Intended for vehicle crews of armored vehicles because the normal infantry uniform was impractical.  Short hooded jacket with pleated pockets and both zippers and buttons for the closures.  Trousers are the same way, however they originally came with removable leg adjustment straps.  These consisted of camo straps with (IIRC) three buttons in order to adjust tightness.  Also, the trousers have no hand pockets rather simple pass throughs (no flaps). I have a complete set.  Clearly the need for the KAZ59 Armored went away when the KAZ69 was introduced since they were basically the same uniform.

    Field Gear

    *Large Rucksack - HUGE bastard!  Big enough to put enough supplies for a weekend (including a case of beer Wink).  The one I have is dated 1958 or 1959, I forget which, and is nearly identical to non-camo ones I've seen from the 1960s.  So I think this was a short lived item that was replaced, for some reason, by a non-camo version.  Only one I've seen I have.

    *Medium Rucksack - similar to the Large version, in that it has three black leather straps to secure the camo flap over the gray cloth sack.  I've seen a couple.

    *Small Rucksack (Breadbag) - designed to be worn on the belt or attached to the Y-Straps. At one time very common.  Still come up on eBay fairly often.

    *Canteen Cover Model 1 - has integrated leather shoulder strap and no metal D-Ring clip.  IIRC it has simple webbing belt loop attached.  I've only seen one or two.

    *Canteen Cover Model 2 - no provision for leather shoulder strap and has metal D-Ring clip on it.

    *Shovel Cover - patterned after traditional fixed handled US model, complete with metal snap ring/post closure.  I've only seen one type of model, though I imagine small production differences exist.

    *Gasmask Bag - heavy construction with integrated rubberized sleeve for protecting the gasmask.  Difficult to find and usually in bad condition due to the way the cloth rubbed on things when in use.

    *Zeltbahn (Shelter Quarter) - reversible to gray Sumpftarn inspired pattern.  As far as I know there is no tentpole bag for this.

    Headgear

    *M43 Cap - unofficially, but commonly, used while in service.  made in huge numbers out of used/damged Zeltbahns and later surplus Zelts after the market was flooded with them.

    *Helmet Cover - same as above.  For use with the US style pot helmet.

    M43 Cap - a friend of mine in Austria found what appeared to be a cap that was POSSIBLY factory made.  Unfortunately, it was at a show and by the time he got back around to the table it was gone.  He still curses the fact that he didn't look at it too closely AND didn't buy it just in case.  It appeared to not be the run-of-the-mill cap made from surplus shelters.

    Hmmmm.... I think that's it.

    As for non camo gear, I have some KAZ56 shirts (HBT green/gray), 1956 greatcoat, 1950s dated US style tanker boots (my size too!), quilted liners (1950s and 1960s), leather field gear, canteens, shovel, and probably some other bits and pieces of pre 1975 gear.

    If anybody has anything that I've missed here, please chime in!!

    Steve


    Last edited by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Philip on Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:18 am

    hi steve,
    you must have a great collection of old austrian stuff.
    well, the dot camo uniform is sill used for opfor training. i wore it once during my army service.
    the medic bag for example has never really been replaced. corpsmen sill use it.
    some reservists do also use some old dot camo equipment.


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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:40 am

    Some of My Austrian Gear :

    Bread Bag :



    Leggings:



    Canteen cover with hook:



    Medium size Backpack:



    STG58 Ammo Pouches FAL:



    Gasmask Bag:



    Helmet:



    Dressed Up Dummy:




    Last edited by panzerwerk on Fri May 15, 2009 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:11 pm

    Hi Philip,

    you must have a great collection of old austrian stuff.

    Thanks! Austrian Dot will always have a very, very special place in my heart. Why? Because it is the first foreign camouflage item I ever purchased! Summer 1991, Tauberbischoffsheim (Germany). It is definitely the pattern that got me hooked.

    What does the medic bag look like? I'm pretty sure I've never seen one!!

    Yo Steve,

    NICE crisp stuff you have there! So many of these pieces have been beat to Hell due to years and years of reissuing. The shovel cover looks practically brand new! And that reminds me... IIRC some have a leather belt loop and other canvas Very Happy

    Some questions/points about your stuff:

    1. I wish I knew how to tell the difference between an Austrian and a German helmet. As far I can tell the Austrians used pretty much identical helmets as the Germans (they had about a half dozen types) for a period of time. Perhaps they even purchased old stock from the Germans? This is possible since the Germans abandoned the 2 piece helmet in the 1960s and moved to a single piece one. That does look to be an Austrian helmet net, though.

    2. If you weren't aware, that is a West German Polizei/BGS belt. It's the only bit of kit you apparently need, which isn't surprising since those belts are extremely difficult to find. I just sold my spare on eBay with other leather gear a few weeks ago. Wish I had known you needed one Sad Maybe Philip can locate one for you? My friend in Wien said they are the hardest thing to find these days, plus when found they are small and in poor condition. They were good belts so people used them up for personal uses.

    3. I'm not sure that canteen is Austrian issue, though I'm by no means an expert on their canteens. Standard canteen design since the 1960s has a very large, gear-like, top. However, they were heavily influenced by US Army stuff early on so I wouldn't doubt their first type was based on the US style OR they actually had surplus canteens.

    4. I've got to get myself a mannequin so I can do kick ass displays like that! When I get him I shall name him Bob Very Happy

    Little side note... the leather belt system had standalone D-Rings on leather loops to add flexibility as to where kit was located. I have some pics of a KAZ69 uniform on a mannequin at the Austrian Gebirgsjäger museum (or at least that was the central theme of it) in the old castle at Salzburg. There was a D-Ring on the right hip with canteen attached. See below Wink





    I wish I hadn't taken those pictures 17 years ago because I can't remember the details and I didn't write down anything I saw at the time Sad Apparently there is some sort of belt under the combat belt which the canteen is attached to. That doesn't make much sense, since a belt over a belt is extremely uncomfortable.

    Cheers,

    Steve

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:14 pm

    Another piece of trivia... KAZ69 boots are my daily footwear, and have been for several years. Even had to have the heals replaced Very Happy Damned things are comfortable!!

    Steve

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Philip on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:43 pm

    sorry, i can't really remember about the medic bag. i think similar to the bread bag but with a red cross on it!


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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:03 pm

    That's what I was thinking Smile In the back of my mind I THINK I remember seeing a picture of a regular breadbag with a white circle and red cross emblem painted on it. This makes more sense to me than for a specialized bag, custom made for medics. A customized bag would be unusual for this time period.

    I've seen the Germans do the same thing, BTW.

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by panzerwerk on Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:48 pm

    2. If you weren't aware, that is a West German Polizei/BGS belt. It's the only bit of kit you apparently need, which isn't surprising since those belts are extremely difficult to find. I just sold my spare on eBay with other leather gear a few weeks ago. Wish I had known you needed one Sad Maybe Philip can locate one for you? My friend in Wien said they are the hardest thing to find these days, plus when found they are small and in poor condition. They were good belts so people used them up for personal uses.

    The originals are super hard to find , seems the WWII reenactors scooped them up for big bucks due to the similarity to the Nazi version . I wish you would have told me too , I would have grabbed yours in a heatbeat !!

    And your right , the canteen is U.S. no Austrian , these although not very rare are still hard to come by and I had not put much importance on finding one .

    Thanks Guys !!

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by nkomo on Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:52 pm

    The first two years of high school, I carried one of the medium sized backpacks for a book bag. Very handy and very sturdy made pack.
    Arch


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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:52 am

    Steve,

    Sorry we missed each other on the belt. If I get another one I'll give a shout.

    The originals are super hard to find , seems the WWII reenactors scooped them up for big bucks due to the similarity to the Nazi version

    The Austrian belt doesn't look like anything used during the war, so I doubt that any self respecting reenactor wouldn't have any use for it. The belt is single prong buckle with rounded black leather backing behind the buckle. Made from thick leather with rounded edges. The Hungarian Communist belts (not surprisingly) are quite similar, but made from tanned leather. Czechs also used something similar early on.

    Steve

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Philip on Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:35 am

    M43 Cap - a friend of mine in Austria found what appeared to be a cap that was POSSIBLY factory made. Unfortunately, it was at a show and by the time he got back around to the table it was gone. He still curses the fact that he didn't look at it too closely AND didn't buy it just in case. It appeared to not be the run-of-the-mill cap made from surplus shelters.
    Something like this? Smile




    It was on ebay.at a while ago. It went for something like 50-70€. I can't remember exactly...

    (picture source: ebay)


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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:38 pm

    WOW!! I have never seen a factory made hat before. No wonder it went for fairly big money. I would have paid that even with the horrible exchange rate Very Happy Phillip, can you see the date on the stamp?

    While I'm here, this is a picture of a grouping I purchased a while ago. Note the medic's canteen and bag. The bag is very "flimsy" compared to the extremely heavy duty bread bag.



    Also, this strange shovel cover variant was seen on eBay. Note the black leather strap on the shovel cover's back. I wish the seller had flipped it over so we could see how the strap was attached.



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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Philip on Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:52 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Phillip, can you see the date on the stamp?
    Sorry Steve. Unfortunately not...


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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Alaskan Scout on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:01 pm

    Are the medical bags an exclusive item or are they used for other utilitarian tasks besides being a medic bag?

    Know where one can be found?

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Philip on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:07 pm

    Just for medic purposes I think.
    With some luck you can find them on ebay.






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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Alaskan Scout on Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:21 pm

    So very interesting...might have a pic of a Soldier with one in the field?

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by Philip on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:53 pm

    No pics, sorry.


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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by panzerwerk on Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:26 pm

    There are 2 sizes of Medic bag from what I have seen , one smaller then the one Philip shown .

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by parafal on Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:18 pm

    My Austrian dot camo set



    And the pyramid tent rolled up

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:11 am

    I forgot all about this thread! Here's some updates since I started it nearly 3 years ago:

    There is a KAZ 57 Panzeranzug (armored troops uniform). At least there is a jacket for it, I'm not sure about the trousers. The jacket is similar to the KAZ59 Panzerjacke, but with exposed snaps for the pockets. There are two or three possible variations having to do with the hood.

    I have still only seen one size/type Medic bag. I've seen maybe 8 or so up for sale over the years and they all appear to be identical.

    I recently received another variant of canteen cover. The three types I'm aware of are:

    1. Medic -> black leather shoulder strap
    2. Early -> broad metal clip. Could be an even older one with rounded black clip, but I haven't seen one of those.
    3. Late -> similar to above but with two straps with snaps in order to better secure the canteen to a backpack.

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    Re: Documenting Austrian Dot Camo Items

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:43 pm

    Updating this thread instead of creating a new one.  Here's everything I know of that is in the dot camo pattern.  Corrections or additions welcomed!!

    Uniforms

    Proper nomenclature for the combat uniform is Kampfanzug (Battle Uniform) M (Model) and two digit date.  Most commonly referenced simply as the M number, for example M59.  When abbreviated in full, it is KAZ M59.  The KAZ designation is important to differentiate the combat uniform from the Dienstanzug (Service Uniform) and Drillichanzug (Drill Uniform).

    The camouflage uniform was initially designed to be worn over the wool uniform M56, but that was both costly and uncomfortable so they introduced a cotton HBT type uniform.  This uniform was to be worn as the daily uniform and the camouflage uniform was only used for field activities, as the West German Bundeswehr did.  Apparently it first saw service in 1958, likely as a trials item, and was then finalized as Drillichanzug (Drill Uniform) M59.  I have never seen an example of this uniform in a collection and Austrian collectors say it's simply impossible to get a hold of.  It sounds like the stocks of uniforms were destroyed instead of retained.  The Drillichanzug M59 continued until about 1967 when it was modified (possibly as a trials item at first).  The major difference is the M57 trousers had only a waist tie, the later type had belt loops instead. I do not know if it was re-designated Drillichanzug M69, but I suspect it was and the designation was Drillichanzug M69.  Based on some examples I've seen from the early 1970s I think the cloth was changed to a cotton/poly and eventually went on to be the base for the KAZ M75 uniform.

    *M57 - original uniform made for approximately one year.  There are tons of interesting features, but the easiest to note are foliage loops and full collar with hood.  Original ones had no epaulets, however they were later sewn on to conform to new standards for rank.  I have never once seen the trousers in good photos, original or collector.  I am sure one exists, but how it differs from the later models I can not say.

    *M57 Armored Crew - simplified uniform for armored vehicle crews designed to be more comfortable and less likely to snag.  It consists of a short jacket with two billowed chest pockets with snaps and zippered front with snaped flap.  Collared with zipper to receive hood with other half of zipper.  Trousers have a waist tie and two tall billowed leg pockets with zippers and single snap flaps.  There are no hand pockets, only pass throughs without flaps.  Jackets were later modified by having the zipper removed and sewn directly onto the collar.  This made them essentially M59 Armored Crew jackets.  The trousers are exceedingly rare and to date I've only seen one example in anything but period photos.  I am the lucky owner!

    *Transitional - appears to be a non-designated transitional uniform made in the year of 1959 only.  It basically has a mix of M57 and some M59 features which neither of the other uniforms have individually.  The most significant for the parka is no collar (like M59) and snaps instead of buttons (like M57).  The rescue strap on the back is gone, so are the foliage loops.  Very strangely, the snaps are opposite of norm with the male side attached to the exposed side, female on the interior side.  My guess is this was an attempt to reduce the number of snaps that pulled loose.  The trousers are similar to M59 except they use snaps (also in reverse order) and have elastic snap gathers. Small integrated belt at the waist.  I suspect the M57 trousers looked similar, if not identical.  Trousers are very rare, parkas come up for sale fairly regularly.

    *M59 - standard uniform from 1960 through 1970.  Consists of a long parka and trousers.  Easy identification features are non-pleated billowed pockets and large rounded gray buttons.  Trousers are very similar to the Transitional type except buttons instead of snaps, solid cloth leg adjustments, and some other minor differences.  Some parkas were cut down to make them conform better to M69 design or perhaps for easier sale as a surplus jacket.

    *M59 Armored Crew - as with the M57 type before it, this uniform was intended for vehicle crews of armored vehicles.  Short hooded jacket with pleated pockets and both zippers and buttons for the closures.  Trousers are similar to the M57 as well, except that there are buttons for the leg pockets instead of snaps.  Clearly the need for the M59 Armored Crew uniform went away when the M69 was introduced since they were basically the same uniform.  Therefore, there is no M69 Armored Crew uniform.

    *M69 - final version of the uniform with production starting in 1970.  Short two pocket hooded jacket with flat pockets obviously modeled after the previous M59 Armored Crew jacket.  Trousers have button down belt loops and no leg adjustment tabs.  Officially worn until 1975, unofficially worn by reserves for a few years, worn by OPFOR well into the 1990s.



    Field Gear

    *Large Rucksack - very large "campaign" backpack.  The one I have is dated 1959 and is nearly identical to non-camo ones I've seen from the 1960s.  So I think this was a short lived item that was replaced, for some reason, by a non-camo version.  Extremely rare.  I think I have seen only one in addition to mine.

    *Medium Rucksack Model 1 - similar to the Large version, in that it has three black leather straps to secure the camo flap over the gray cloth sack.  The two outside straps are fastened to the underside of the camouflage cover.

    *Medium Rucksack Model 2 - same as Model 1 but with all three straps exposed.

    *Small Rucksack Model 1 - designed to be worn on the belt or attached to the Y-Straps. Has thin black metal clips for attaching to D-rings.

    *Small Rucksack Model 2 - same as Model 1 but with same D-ring clips seen on other items.

    *Canteen Cover Model 1 - US style canteen cover with two gray webbing straps that snap to the side and bottom.  Rear has webbing for belt plus a D-ring clip.

    *Canteen Cover Model 2 - same as Model 1 but with no webbing straps, but does have simple camo cloth loop on bottom of cover.

    *Canteen Cover (Medic) - has integrated leather shoulder strap and no metal D-Ring clip.  It has simple webbing belt loop attached.

    *Shovel Cover - patterned after traditional fixed handled US model, complete with metal snap ring/post closure.  I've only seen one type of model, though I imagine small production differences exist.

    *Gasmask Bag - heavy construction with integrated rubberized sleeve for protecting the gasmask.  Difficult to find and usually in bad condition due to the way the cloth rubbed on things when in use.

    *Zeltbahn (Shelter Quarter) - reversible to gray Sumpftarn inspired pattern.  As far as I know there is no tentpole bag for this.

    *Gaiters - this is an odd item that nobody really seems to know much about.  Unlike other gaiters this is not adjustable at all.  It has three buttons and three holes along the short edges.  They are factory made and have stamps on them, so they are official issue.  Possibly used for parades?

    *Leg Ties - it seems the baggy nature of the Panzerhose presented some problems which were not addressed by modifying the trousers themselves.  To remedy this two straps, each with one hole and three buttons, were issued.  The soldier could use this below the knee to keep the trousers from flopping around.  They were either field stitched to the trousers or used separately.


    Headgear

    M43 Cap (factory made) - these seem to have been experimental issue.  Only a couple of photos and collector samples have been spotted.  Definitely the rarest of all Austrian camouflage items.

    *M43 Cap - unofficially, but commonly, used while in service.  Made in huge numbers out of used/damged Zeltbahns and later surplus Zelts after the market was flooded with them.

    Steve
    *Helmet Cover - same as above.  For use with the US style pot helmet.

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