Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

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    Conker
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    Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Conker on Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:20 pm

    Some new stuff around... everything is Canadian


    Oldschool OD combat shirt
    Oldschool tan combat shirt
    Canadia KFOR deployment cap (canadian flag on the back)


    AR CADPAT combat pants
    AR CADPAT gaz mask carrier
    AR CADPAT boonie
    Camelback BFM 500 Digi desert (as you probably know, not CADPAT, but Camelback's digital desert which is pretty close to AOR1. Got it from a R22eR "Vandoos" who got back from the sandbox last fall. Still has sand inside LOL)



    TW CADPAT shirt
    TW CADPAT !?!?!? (looks like the thing worn under an helmet? not sure what it is)


    TW CADPAT prototype boots

    Mk1rceme
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Mk1rceme on Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:31 pm

    Very nice! Those boots are neat!

    saltefanden
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by saltefanden on Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:09 pm

    YES! What a Face

    Why go to great lengths to conceal the soldier with a great disruptive pattern, and then stick him in a pair of brightly polished jet black boots in the field?

    I think I've only ever seen Czech 'desert' camo and Chinese PLA footwear in full camo. Strangely enough the Chinese shoes/boots were in a Danish M/84-type green spot camo, which China has never made a uniform for.

    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:46 pm

    Where did you get the boots?

    Camo_fiend
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Camo_fiend on Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:16 am

    Those boots are hideous but intriguing at the same time. Laughing

    At first I thought "Those look awful." but at the same time, Ronnie raised an excellent point -- wearing camouflage is kind of self-defeating if you're wearing solid-coloured boots. They are very interesting all the same, especially since they are prototypes.

    Very envious of the TW CADPAT too; such a great pattern.


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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by John Brown on Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:02 am

    Camo_fiend wrote:Those boots are hideous but intriguing at the same time. Laughing

    At first I thought "Those look awful." but at the same time, Ronnie raised an excellent point -- wearing camouflage is kind of self-defeating if you're wearing solid-coloured boots.
    I'd go with that theory, except that boots will quickly become dusty, muddy or hidden behind grass (to the enemy) or whatnot.

    One doesn't wear spit-shined boots in combat (if one does, the boots don't stay spit-shined long).

    saltefanden
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by saltefanden on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:49 am

    Too true Mr. Brown, I stand corrected Very Happy

    The OD and tan jackets shown pose a real problem for me, as I really try to keep my collection down to camouflage-printet uniforms only, to keep the stuff from piling up, but the plain CF jackets there look rather tasty!!!

    Gemini
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Gemini on Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:25 pm

    I have one of thoese OD shirts.It is a great coat.Very glad I have it!

    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:12 pm

    The boots were rejected because of two factors:

    1. After minimal field use they got hideously trashed
    2. Soldiers HATED the look

    I have a brand new set and I have to agree with the soldiers... as much as it makes sense to have camouflage on boots, it looks utterly stupid. And this is coming from a camo junkie Wink

    I've seen some pics of used ones and they definitely didn't hold up well. Tan/brown "rough out" boots are just as effective from a camouflage standpoint, but they hold up well to scuffs and normal use. Black is something that nobody should wear in the field since they are too easily spotted.

    Personally, I like boots with camouflage uppers and leather lowers. The Czech boots are like that, as are Bulgarian and Slovene issued boots. Not sure who else might use them. I have an experimental set of Swiss TAS90 boots like that and I've seen boots sold with UCP and Multicam uppers.

    Steve


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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:17 pm

    Conker,

    Great stuff! I got my first genuine issue CADPAT TW stuff from a shop in Quebec City in 2002, which you probably know of. The R22eR supply staff made a mistake and surplussed their stuff from Bosnia (they were the first to wear it). The shop keeper bought as much as he could and I bought almost all of that. Most were pretty beat, but there were some nice pieces mixed in there. I kept a few and sold the rest. I made a lot of my fellow collectors happy that month Very Happy

    Steve

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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Spañiard on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:44 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:The boots were rejected because of two factors:

    1. After minimal field use they got hideously trashed
    2. Soldiers HATED the look

    I have to agree with the soldiers... as much as it makes sense to have camouflage on boots, it looks utterly stupid. And this is coming from a camo junkie Wink

    Steve


    I always believed, in the Olden days by taking CF. Camo sticks and camoing the boots with
    the light & dark green in the boonies, therfore not stupid.

    Even if trashed the different colours are still there, lets remember unless your on Parade.
    Combat boots aren't meant to look pretty Mr, Steve, Lol.

    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:48 pm

    ppl, the purposr of CADPAT boots wasnt as a visual camoflauge item, it was to protect the wearer from being spotted by thermal/Infrared/ Nightvision ect. If you look at pics of CF members in CADPAT Through any of the above, they do not xhow up, eccpt any of their OD gear their faces and there boots.

    Spañiard
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Spañiard on Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:48 pm

    Tyler Flint wrote:ppl, the purposr of CADPAT boots wasnt as a visual camoflauge item, it was to protect the wearer from being spotted by thermal/Infrared/ Nightvision ect. If you look at pics of CF members in CADPAT Through any of the above, they do not xhow up, eccpt any of their OD gear their faces and there boots.

    I heard USMC and US Army, use the term "IR Reflective" gear ect., but that makes you think, IR Tabs
    and Patches that Reflect when submitted to NVG. However IR Deflective would be a better name.
    Per Say, all My USMC Gen II C.B. as MARPAT Gear ect., is IR Reflective. When your looking at
    Moi Mr. Flint through your NVG I'll come out all blurred out, wont see a pattern of a "Human Silhouette"
    is how I can best describe it. I believe They also made paint for vehicles, ect., thats also I.R. Reflective.

    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:39 pm

    Correct about the paint, and Yes CADPAT works similar to MARPAT and ACU but CADPAT's IR capabilities are far better. (As stated by both the US and Canadian Governments.) Also I just wanted to say sorry for my lack of effective spelling in my previous post, I was useing a different keyboard..... Very Happy

    Spañiard
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Spañiard on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:36 pm

    Tyler Flint wrote:Correct about the paint, and Yes CADPAT works similar to MARPAT and ACU but CADPAT's IR capabilities are far better. (As stated by both the US and Canadian Governments.) Also I just wanted to say sorry for my lack of effective spelling in my previous post, I was useing a different keyboard..... Very Happy

    Spelling is not and issue with moi. I would like to see those studies since IMO Canadian gear is 3+ generation,
    Per say 15 years behind, compared to USMC, US Army.

    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:20 pm

    Canada Has had Digital gear much longer then the USMC and US Army. As a matter of fact, MARPAT was designed with the help of the Canadian DND because we would not sell CADPAT to them.

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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by John Brown on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:25 pm

    Tyler Flint wrote:Canada Has had Digital gear much longer then the USMC and US Army. As a matter of fact, MARPAT was designed with the help of the Canadian DND because we would not sell CADPAT to them.
    You might check this thread, as one of the members has presented photographic evidence that the pattern is the exact same (the colors may be different).

    So, yeah, I'd say the Canadians helped the US military (and other country's militaries, too) . . .

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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Spañiard on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:59 pm

    CF. CADPAT Digital pattern was first, and when the Digital pattern was first introduced by the US I noticed the similarities.
    By the link posted by Mr. Brown shows that it was copied by US and Others.

    What I was stating is my GEN II pouches as all gear thats C.B. in colour.
    No Digital pattern needed and still I.R. Reflective.



    See this




    Blucher Systems Ghost Soldier Camouflage and Spectralflage Vehicle Camo: Multispectral Combat Camouflage Fabric Technology that Provides Anti-Thermal/IR (Infrared) Camo for 21st Century Special Warfare (SPECWAR)


    http://www.defensereview.com/blucher-systems-ghost-and-spectralflage-multispectral-combat-camouflage-fabric-technology-anti-thermalir-infrared-soldier-camouflage-and-vehicle-camouflage-for-21st-century-warfare-operations/


    http://eng.bluechersystems.com/produkte/C10

    Source: DefenseReview.com (http://s.tt/13fmH)

    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:47 am

    Yes, we helped other countries produce their digital patterns, but all Im saying is CADPAT (That is real CADPAT with the IR coating still intact) Is far more advanced then any other IR reflective/digital pattern in the world.

    Spañiard
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Spañiard on Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:12 pm

    U.S.M.C. MARPAT Camouflage in the UV - treated with UVRC7

    [youtube][/youtube]


    Anti-Nightvision camouflage
    [youtube][/youtube]


    Digital camo was First mass produced by the Canadians, with the discovery as incorporating of the IR protection w/ the use of reflective fabrics or the British DPM (Disruptive Pattern Material), that led to the creation of CADPAT before the USMC's MARPAT.

    HyperStealth® Biotechnology Corp. of Canada have issued different types of digital camos to 29 countries including the Philippines:

    http://www.hyperstealth.com/



    http://www.hyperstealth.com/CADPAT-MARPAT.htm


    Digital Camouflage History

    Who did it first; Canada or the US?



    CADPAT: Canadian Disruptive Pattern

    The new Canadian patterns; CADPAT™ (Canadian Disruptive Pattern) Temperate Woodland (TW) and Arid Regions (AR). CADPAT TW has been rated best tropical and Temperate Camouflage by NATO soldiers in a recent scientific study. The Canadian studies show there is a 40 percent less chance of being detected from 200 meters away with CADPAT Versus Olive Drab.

    MARPAT: Marine Pattern Camouflage

    The U.S. Marines considered adopting CADPAT for their new pattern, however the Canadian government owns the copyright for the pattern. The Canadian government supplied information and manufacturers to help the Marines with the computer-generated Digital Pattern pixilated uniform the Canadians had been developing since 1988.

    MARPAT was developed with the help of the Canadian Department of National Defence and their extensive research used to develop CADPAT.

    According to a source involved in the CADPAT evaluation process, testing with Digital patterns apparently started in Canada around 1995:

    CADPAT was officially adopted as the standard Canadian Army pattern in 1997. The pattern had to be reproduced on fabric with exacting accuracy to ensure integrity of the “pixellation”. This pixellation is a key element of CADPAT’s overall effectiveness.

    The initial 6-month trial was conducted in 1998, using 660 CADPAT uniforms. 2 uniforms per man were issued to the members of 3 x 110-man Light Infantry Companies based in Eastern, Central and Western Canada.

    A final field trial (with the previous tailoring details addressed, but with “covered” (as opposed to “exposed”) buttons was conducted in 2001.

    The first general-issue CADPAT item to be issued to the Canadian Army was the cover for the new Kevlar helmet. This item was received by the field force in 1998. Conversion to the CADPAT uniform itself commenced in late 2001.

    Confirmation through the CADPAT Project Manager; MARPAT is indeed a direct derivative of CADPAT. The USMC apparently expressed considerable interest throughout the latter stages of CADPAT development. This interest peaked when scientific findings regarding the pattern’s efficacy indicated its superiority over every other temperate pattern currently fielded. The USMC was looking for a “distinctive” Corps uniform, and the CADPAT fit the bill perfectly. At the USMC’s request, the Canadian government “shared” CADPAT with the Corps under a bilateral military “Exchange Agreement”. This was done with full Canadian concurrence.

    Additional information; It was not the Canadians or U.S. Marines but the U.S. Army that pioneered Digital Camouflage:

    Second Use: Government of Canada 1996 CADPAT

    Third Use: Guy Cramer 1998 "SASBAN" {PIXELPAT} (objective evidence of 1999 copyright).

    Fourth Use: United States Marine Corps; MARPAT year 2000+

    *The Marines allowed Propper Int. to make a commercial version of MARPAT called Jungle Stalker. Propper was required to change the colors for this limited run.

    Fifth Use: Finland - Army

    Sixth Use: China - Marines

    Seventh Use: Kingdom of Jordan

    As of 2007, Guy Cramer has over 7000+ digital patterns under copyright with full or evaluation licenses issued on some of these patterns.


    References:

    New York Times Article Giddy Yet Covert By JOHN LELAND http://college3.nytimes.com/guests/articles/2002/01/20/895839.xml

    Stars and Stripes Article "Marines' followed Canadians' example in use of digitally-designed 'cammies' " http://www.pstripes.com/01/feb01/ed022401e.html

    CADPAT & MARPAT Development (Part 1) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/camouflageandcombatgear/message/197?source=1

    Camo News http://www.worlduniformkeith.com/camo%20news.htm

    Canadian Department of National Defence: Clothe the Soldier (CTS) http://www.army.dnd.ca/lf/equip/hab/1/13_e.asp

    Sincerely, Guy Cramer, President
    HyperStealth® Biotechnology Corp.


    August 20, 2008 Copyright and Camouflage Patterns
    http://www.hyperstealth.com/



    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:29 pm

    CADPAT Is still the best. Very Happy

    koalorka
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by koalorka on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:46 pm

    Interesting read. I'm curious how many of the numerous pixelated uniforms that have followed in CADPAT's wake have any math algorithms or tested research behind them? I suspect a lot of copycat pixelated camos were just developed with aesthetics in mind.

    Tyler Flint
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    Re: Various stuff: Boonie, jackets, prototype boots, caps, etc...

    Post by Tyler Flint on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:56 pm

    I agree.

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