TTsKO colorations

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    shoru
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    TTsKO colorations

    Post by shoru on Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:13 pm

    Hey TTsKO-enthusiasts,

    since there is a thread about different TTsKO cuts, why can't we start one about different colorations?

    I know that there are a lot of TTsKO uniforms in the hands of collectos on this board, so why shouldn't we compare all the colorations?

    These are the different colorations I have:



    If possible lets keep out duplicates.


    Best Regards,
    Kolja
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    koalorka
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by koalorka on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:52 pm

    Great idea, but perhaps a description of the uniform to accompany the pattern.

    1985 VDV (left) vs. 1989 transitional VDV:



    1991 MVD "brown" vs. 1992 VDV "mountain/oxblood/bloodcake" Very Happy:



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    TTsKO development

    Post by escammo on Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:01 pm

    The following information is based on personal observation. It should not be seen as 100% correct, just an attempt to understand TTsKO camo development. Please feel free to make corrections or add additional information.

    The earlier Soviet TTsKO pattern uniforms do not appear to have much color variation. TTsKO uniforms issued 1985 to 1990 had green/khaki based colors. There were some slight dye lot variations on uniforms but there is not enough evidence to say, for example, that brown based (or other color variation) TTsKO pattern uniforms were originally issued.

    This all changed circa 1991 when uniforms began to show intentional color variations like pink, oxblood, and blue colorations. 1991 is also when you begin seeing new camouflage patterns introduced (like bi-color and VSR). These new patterns and colorations were probably developed during a trial process to find a new camo uniform for the armed services.

    Based on history, Russia fields a new camo pattern about every 10 years; starting with the TTsKO in the 1980’s, VSR in the 1990’s, Flora in the 2000’s and the current digital for the 2010’s.

    Camouflage variations increased during the early 1990’s, with the break-up of the Soviet Union, as former republics began developing their own, different camouflage pattern uniforms.

    It appears that the Ukrainian owned Elephant factories like the Poltava factory and the Sverdlovskaya factory (which may be located in Russia) were very active in developing and exporting new camo patterns and various uniform colorations.

    Please check the dates on your uniforms and see if you can find a pre-1991 TTsKO uniform with something other than a green/khaki base color. It would also be interesting to identify the factories that produced the different color variations.
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by koalorka on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:28 pm

    I agree Eric, I made this observation as well noting the minimal variation prior to 1991. All TTsKO uniforms between 1985-1989, regardless of branch of service (whether it be Naval Infantry, air force or VDV/army), all share the basic "forest" colour template.

    I've also noticed the earliest of TTsKO uniforms to have used a different dying technique, which results in the "bleeding" of the red/brown shapes into the background colours, which a Russian source once described as intentional but costly, and thus dropped in the later series. This is obvious in my first pair of uniforms above.
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:12 pm





    http://vonstuckcamouflage.free.fr/USSR.php
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by escammo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:05 pm

    Here is a variation from Dennis Desmond's book - black, brown on a tan base. It would be cool to find one of these!
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by escammo on Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:08 pm

    The photos below show the factory stamps on two separate TTsKO uniforms that have the pink base coloration. The fact that the uniforms were produced by different factories suggests that the pink TTsKO was an intentional color variation.

    Infamous $700 Pink 6 pocket TTsKO from eBay showing a Savinskaya factory stamp dated 1991 located in Russia


    Another Pink 6 pocket TTsKO showing a Borislav garment factory dated 1991 located in the Ukraine

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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:13 pm

    I don't think I've seen the type Gilles pictured in the lower right (of the 4 patterns) before today. Although I like the original darker colors the best, I kinda like this lighter variation!

    Steve
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by koalorka on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:16 am

    Production variance between 2 different 1985-dated uniforms:



    Both are new.
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:47 am

    I'd say those two are a pretty good side-by-side example of "normal" production variation. Again, look at DPM uniforms of any type for any given model and you'll find more variation than this. Heck, look at DDR Strichtarn variations and they only had two colors to try balancing Very Happy

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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by koalorka on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:59 am

    Yep, my point exactly. But to say that the "pink" and other bizarre types are the random products of a bewildered and overzealous textile factory employee, like some have claimed, is pure nonsense. I suspect that the research project that eventually gave rise to the TTsKO camo planned for the use of several different colour variations for use in different environments, but due to the acute financial problems of the 1980s, was not fully implemented. Somewhat like the AKM replacement. The Soviets considered some very ambitious designs, mechanically superior to the AKM rifle but chose the AK-74 as an intermediate solution for economical reasons.

    Amusingly, the uniform was assembled from two different batches of fabric, as seen on the shoulder boards:

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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:00 pm

    koalorka wrote:But to say that the "pink" and other bizarre types are the random products of a bewildered and overzealous textile factory employee, like some have claimed, is pure nonsense.

    I don't think anybody (here, at least) is suggesting that all of the variations are unintentional by central authority. My rule of thumb for the TTsKO is that if the colors are roughly in the same ballpark, it's a manufacturing variation. If there is significant, consistent differences in all three colors then it's probably some sort of deliberate decision. Branch based? I don't think we know enough to make that conclusion, though it is certainly a possibility.

    This is quite a different approach than what I have with VSR. Complete chaos is about the only thing that explains all those variations.

    Mixed cloth batches are pretty common. Even in the West. US ERDL uniforms are often found in Brown and Green variants, I've seen Berlin Polizei Sumpftarn with THREE batches of cloth, BW Splittertarn with mixed variants, etc. What I find even more fun is when you find obviously defective cloth used for things like the underside of pocket flaps or other low profile areas. I even found DDR Strichtarn on the inside shoulders of a wool uniform. That was a surprising find Wink

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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:21 pm










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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by shoru on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:43 am

    So you got this one off eBay.
    Could you find any evidence that this suit is in fact of Russian origin and not Ukrainian-made?

    The seller claimed it to be designated for custom personnel.
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:44 pm



    I don't know
    No label or stamp
    For that I have see, Valery sell only Russian item, so, I don't think it is Ukrenian
    The picture show a Russian custom special force operator ( find on a French forum, the guy who have post this picture collect custon items from east country)
    Gilles
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:57 pm

    I put this jacket here because it have the same patch
    Gilles











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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:04 pm







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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:34 pm







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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:42 pm







    Customs service write on the patch

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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:11 pm

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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:15 pm

    vonstuck wrote:




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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:43 pm






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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:53 pm

    Nice! This is a lined version of the helicopter jacket, or does it have a button in liner?

    Steve
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    Re: TTsKO colorations

    Post by vonstuck on Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:17 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Nice!  This is a lined version of the helicopter jacket, or does it have a button in liner?

    Steve

    lined version of the helicopter jacket
    Gilles


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    Re: TTsKO colorations

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