Early Flecktarn Camo

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    FobanX
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    Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by FobanX on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:56 pm



    The material of this shirt is thinner than the current flecktarn pattern.

    http://camouniform.militaryblog.jp/
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    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:46 pm

    These are now very difficult to find. I do not have exact information about this, but here is my understanding of the item based on the facts:

    1. The material was never intended for BW items, just manufacturing tests early in the testing process (1986?). There was no reason to use more expensive material for the test, so a cheap thin material was used instead.

    2. After the tests were conducted the unused material was purchased by (or possibly made by?) the company TSR in the city of Rottenburg. This company is now known as STURM (TSR = Thomas Sturm Rottenburg), which is also the producer of Mil-Tec items. It is a commercial company so anything you see with a label "TSR" or "TSR Rottenburg" is almost always commercial.

    3. Three items are made from the cloth as far as I know. The first is this shirt, which is in the standard BW field shirt design. The second is a M43 style cap. The third is a triangular neckerchief.

    So yes... a beautiful shirt in beautiful colors. Also very difficult to find these days. But 100% commercial.

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    sh4pak
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by sh4pak on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:41 pm

    Thanks for the bit of intel on STURM-- I'd no idea it was an acronym, and always figured that it was to be taken literally. Damned clever on Thomas' part.
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:40 am

    From what I've read TSR was his earliest incarnation. He then changed it to STURM, either because it was sexier or because that was when he got heavily into exporting military surplus. A while ago there was a guy on another forum who knew him, personally, from "the old days" and gave his story. I don't think the guy has only one fancy car in his garage, that's for sure Very Happy

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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by mk209 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:50 pm

    Now that's a great pattern. Superb shirt, like it very much.

    Matt.

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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by FobanX on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:47 am

    Mr.Steve

    Thank you for giving a useful information Smile
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    TennoHeikaNate
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by TennoHeikaNate on Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:13 am

    Figured I'd give this thread a defib instead of starting a new one, here's my M43 I found.
    Tag says MADE IN WEST GERMANY on the reverse, not sure if the date is accurate but it looks like it would have been 1982?
    Very poor quality, one sided material, stitching very weak and incomplete.



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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by Wolverine on Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:30 am

    Isn't there also helmet covers in this cloth/pattern?
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by mylle on Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:08 am

    Thats for sure also from Sturm/Miltec- They company is in Rottenburg.
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:18 pm

    Yes, for sure this hat is a commercial piece. TSR = Thomas Sturm Rottenburg, which is what the company was named before it changed to STURM and the production stuff branded as Mil-Tec. TSR made a lot of things out of surplus cloth, especially BGS Sumpftarn hats. So yes, the cloth was most likely produced for the Bundeswehr's 1976 trials, but the hat is pure commercial production.

    Andrew,

    There were helmet covers made out of this pattern, but I'm not sure it was made out of this specific cloth. There were different variants, some with foliage bands and some without. I have one or two somewhere. Earlier this year one sold on German eBay for a stupid amount of money (EUR 125 IIRC).

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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by Wolverine on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:45 pm

    Here is the one I have. It is made from a thin material that would stand very little hard use; there are six button holes situated around the bottom edge. It is shown here on a very large sized BW steel helmet (62-66). What have I got here?



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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:23 am

    No idea Smile The covers aren't well documented and there's a good chance that small runs of covers were made from otherwise unusable cloth (defective, like this, or otherwise rejected) to help with the transition between the pot and Kevlar helmets.

    My theory is the cloth was simply to test the rollers, dyes, or other aspects of the printing process. Maybe to use for prototype clothing. Why else use such a cheap and obviously unfit cloth? Then when the pattern was rejected there was no reason to keep the cloth. Sturm, having connections, got a hold of the cloth and cranked out commercial items after testing was over. For sure TSR made shirts and hats, but perhaps also helmet covers?

    Which is to say many of these helmet covers IMHO fit into the "dunno" category Very Happy I'd assume with any professional factory made cover there's at least a chance that it was used by the BW in some capacity or another.

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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:42 pm

    It would seem also that the botton holes were deliberately situated on this cover - two on each side, and one centered at front and back. Someone put them there for a reason, so that would reinforce the theory of a limited trial piece of some kind? More than likely it was meant to fit the composite helmet, as it is quite large even on very large steel shell...
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:41 pm

    Yup, I'm always drawn to "expensive" features which don't make obvious sense. Nobody makes features like this by accident, therefore there's a purpose for it that we don't understand. In this case, I definitely don't understand it! The 6 holes look like something is supposed to button onto it. Odd.

    There is a picture of a 1980s trials steel helmet which MIGHT (difficult to tell) have buttons on the band of the liner between the liner and the steel. If that's true, maybe the intention was to button it onto the liner? But if so, I'd expect those holes to be on the lowest edge of the cover instead of a few inches up. I'd also not see the purpose of the string if that were the case. So dunno!

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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:08 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Yup, I'm always drawn to "expensive" features which don't make obvious sense.  Nobody makes features like this by accident, therefore there's a purpose for it that we don't understand.  In this case, I definitely don't understand it!  The 6 holes look like something is supposed to button onto it.  Odd.

    There is a picture of a 1980s trials steel helmet which MIGHT (difficult to tell) have buttons on the band of the liner between the liner and the steel.  If that's true, maybe the intention was to button it onto the liner?  But if so, I'd expect those holes to be on the lowest edge of the cover instead of a few inches up.  I'd also not see the purpose of the string if that were the case.  So dunno!

    Steve

    Indeed, if it were a button-in liner, the string would be redundant. I believe, from the placement of the holes, that they might be for attaching something else on the outside of the helmet.
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:46 pm

    I was thinking a button on band for wargames, safety, or other "high visibility" needs.

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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by Wolverine on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:21 pm

    Exactly. These items often turn up in photos of BW exercises.
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    Zedthefed
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    Re: Early Flecktarn Camo

    Post by Zedthefed on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:09 am

    I have a few of the TSR items as well. Got them pretty cheap awhile back. Neckerchief, Beret, and Winter cap.



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