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    indonesian camo?

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    Post by Philip Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:40 pm

    i found an indonesian camo set on ebay but couldn't find any infos on it.
    http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=196957&ppid=1122&image=107061851&images=107061851,107058947,107058823,107059238,107058655&formats=0,0,0,0,0&format=0
    any help would be appreciated
    thanks,
    philip


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    Post by CollectinSteve Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:02 pm

    Indonesian Police Special Forces "BRIMOB". Here's a link to a Wiki article on it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_Mobil_SOF

    The label should read "ABRI" if it is official. At least I think that's the right designation for this uniform. Mine is tucked away at the moment and I can't get to it easily. It looks like the newer type so TNI is what you're looking for. There are commercial knockoffs which don't have the proper tags but are almost identical.

    The jacket is reversible to Olive Drab, though the trousers are not. I have no idea why Smile

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    Post by oda196 Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:58 pm

    Per my reply in ICUS, Philip, the pattern is worn by the PELOPOR units of the Indonesian Police (BRIMOB).

    Indonesian Police Special Forces "BRIMOB" is not correct information, as it implies the entire BRIMOB wears this pattern, which they do not. Further, the Police uniforms are generally marked POLRI rather than ABRI.

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    Post by CollectinSteve Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:29 pm

    I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the Indonesian forces, so BRIMOB was as far as I could narrow it down. Thanks for clarifying my general identification.

    As for the markings, I have pictures of a set with what appears to be ABRI markings dated 2008. I found this odd because I thought that implied use by some sub group of the Armed Forces, of which the police are not a part of as far as I know.

    The larger point is that there needs to be some sort of initials on the label for it to be considered issued kit. If there are no such tags then it's a commercial knockoff. While not extremely common, there have been a few eBay sellers in recent years selling such sets in various patterns.

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    Last edited by CollectinSteve on Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by CollectinSteve Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:40 pm

    Additionally, I have a PHH (riot police) jacket which is also marked ABRI. I thought this is odd since according to one source they separated out of the ABRI. However, I looked at the label just now and noticed it is dated 1998-1999. After taking a quick look in the Internet it seems they were under direct ABRI control for 1997-1999. So I have an item that came from a narrow window of ABRI control. Therefore, it's likely that I'm misreading the pics I have on hand of the set pictured by Philip (I don't have an example in my collection) and that the label should read POLRI *unless* it is from the 1997-1999 timeframe.

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    Post by panzerwerk Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:20 am

    I have this shirt, but know nothing about it .
    indonesian camo? Indoblue1
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    Post by oda196 Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:07 am

    CollectinSteve wrote:I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the Indonesian forces, so BRIMOB was as far as I could narrow it down. Thanks for clarifying my general identification.

    As for the markings, I have pictures of a set with what appears to be ABRI markings dated 2008. I found this odd because I thought that implied use by some sub group of the Armed Forces, of which the police are not a part of as far as I know.

    The larger point is that there needs to be some sort of initials on the label for it to be considered issued kit. If there are no such tags then it's a commercial knockoff. While not extremely common, there have been a few eBay sellers in recent years selling such sets in various patterns.

    Steve

    I would call it a correction, rather than a clarification, but you are welcome.

    The PHH are not "riot police," as this term implies they are part of the National Police Force. PHH are military personnel charged with anti-riot duties (literally "anti-riot troops"). Most of these units come from the Army or Marines, and are hence part of the Indonesian Armed Forces.

    Your point about the official markings is well taken, but not entirely correct, either. Some Indonesian units wear camouflage only ceremonially or during certain types of training, and not all of their uniform elements are produced in an official capacity. I have examined so-called commercial Indonesian garments that are fully-badged and have obviously been worn, although admittedly this is an exception rather than a rule. Most Indonesian stuff being flogged on Ebay is commercial, or it is easily available to non-military personnel.

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    Post by oda196 Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:11 am

    panzerwerk wrote:I have this shirt, but know nothing about it .

    The camouflage pattern is an old Air Force one, worn by PASKHAS. The jacket, however, seems to be one of the aforementioned commercial types and is also incorrectly badged (the parachutist wing is in an incorrect location, and the tag over the pocket is an Army one).

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    Post by CollectinSteve Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:20 am

    Hmmm... well, I just checked a normally reliable source and it states the PHH are under the jurisdiction of the POLRI, not ABRI (except 1997-1999). The units may indeed come from the other branches (I don't know either way), but according to Global Security's website they are POLRI. My jacket is indeed labeled ABRI, however that's explained by it being within the 2 year window when it was organizationally part of ABRI.

    I should have couched my "commercial" comments better, since just about every force in the world has some overlap with commercial items Very Happy

    My point, which I think you agree with, is if you get a brand new set without proper markings it is likely commercial. Especially if found on eBay. Brand new with badges... well, then you get into the time honored case of hair splitting. A commercial piece with badges can be tarted up or legitimate, depending on point of view. Used with badges can be something an Airsofter wore around, so source becomes of prime importance for those who care about the minutia.

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    Post by CollectinSteve Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:23 am

    I agree with Eric. I haven't seen enough of these jackets, either tagged or not tagged, to know for sure... but I've been under the assumption that a jacket with visible snaps is commercial. At least all three genuine examples I have the snaps are hidden, on the two commercial pieces I had the snaps were visible. But that could just be coincidence since my sample size is quite small.

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    Post by panzerwerk Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:00 am

    Thanks Guys , I appreciate all the input , I had a feeling when I saw those snaps something was not right LOL , thanks
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    Post by CollectinSteve Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:09 pm

    Heh... yeah, exposed snaps on modern uniforms are usually a bad sign. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, so it's not that simple. But when Example A has hidden snaps and Example B has exposed snaps the odds are B is a commercial copy. Same thing with buttons. If Example A has hidden buttons and Example B has exposed buttons, most of the time B is a commercial item. And with velcro too. If Example A has buttons (especially hidden buttons) and Example B has velcro, chances are B is a commercial item.

    The reasoning is the same. B is a much less desirable feature but it is a lot cheaper to produce than A. While it is true that militaries cheap out on things all the time, especially Developing Nations, if a more expensive version exists it's probably an indication that the other versions are commercial production. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that example A is legitimate Smile

    Keep in mind that this is just a general rule of thumb and it absolutely does not hold true in all circumstances. It's just a good way to initially raise some red flags that you should look closer at something. Other information, specific to the garment/nation, should be looked at to further refine theories.

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    Post by oda196 Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:19 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Hmmm... well, I just checked a normally reliable source and it states the PHH are under the jurisdiction of the POLRI, not ABRI (except 1997-1999). The units may indeed come from the other branches (I don't know either way), but according to Global Security's website they are POLRI. My jacket is indeed labeled ABRI, however that's explained by it being within the 2 year window when it was organizationally part of ABRI.

    Steve

    Word back from my sources in Indonesia reinforces my earlier statement, with the addendum that there are also personnel with anti-riot duties within the POLRI (Indonesian National Police), and these may also be called PHH. The Armed Forces have their own PHH forces, and it is these troops only that wear the camouflage smock previously mentioned. As a rule, the Indonesian Police do not wear camouflage uniforms of any kind; the only exception being special operations units such as Pelopor and Gegana. I am sure Global Security has some useful information, but in this case the data is incomplete and misleading.

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    Post by CollectinSteve Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:45 pm

    Excellent info, thanks!

    Yeah, Global Security is a decent site for overview information, however a lot of the information is dated. Seems that once they write an article that's pretty much it. This can produce quite a lot of misinformation if someone doesn't realize that. But I've generally found the information that is there to be reliable. There are always exceptions Very Happy

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    Post by Philip Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:26 am

    Got my Indonesian camo set today but I'm afraid that it's commercial...

    indonesian camo? Forumm17010chfy

    parka:
    indonesian camo? Forumm17006t9uy
    reversible, other side OD:
    indonesian camo? Forumm17007nxza

    pants:
    indonesian camo? Forumm170040ayn
    label (doesn't look military at all to me):
    indonesian camo? Forumm170057xxn

    boonie:
    indonesian camo? Forumm170082a1j

    indonesian camo? Forumm17009tzhe


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    Post by CollectinSteve Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:56 pm

    The differences between the commercial and issue stuff can be quite small. Since the issue stuff is so tough to get, the commercial stuff isn't a bad thing to have IMHO.

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    Post by Philip Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:10 pm

    There's a label and it says: AR

    indonesian camo? Forumm17011c1qy
    indonesian camo? Forumm17012r4jm

    No additional labels or stamps.

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    Post by Guessologist Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:20 am

    Hi Philip,

    From my time in Indonesia, I also picked up a set with the same labels. As far as I'm aware that is the official stuff. I picked my set up off a Police supply shop attached to the local barracks/parade ground. I never saw the guys wearing them other than at training.
    Cheers,
    Ben.
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    Post by Philip Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:05 am

    Hi Ben,
    Thanks for your answer!

    Philip


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    Post by CollectinSteve Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:32 pm

    Interesting info Ben! Either they have changed the labels or that depot had some of the commercial stuff in stock. My understanding is that the latter is a strong possibility.

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    Post by bajiman55 Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:37 pm

    panzerwerk wrote:I have this shirt, but know nothing about it .
    indonesian camo? Indoblue1
    What does the label say in this commercial uniform? I would like to know who the manufacturer is, or how to locate them. Thanks
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    Post by panzerwerk Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:51 pm

    Full pics

    indonesian camo? Indoblue1
    indonesian camo? INDOshirt2
    indonesian camo? INDOTAG1
    indonesian camo? Indoblue2
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    Post by Bujang Kandang Sat May 22, 2010 11:06 am

    DISBEKUM AU = DINAS PERBEKALAN UMUM ANGKATAN UDARA, means air forces geberal logistic department. That jacket is latest/current paskhas/such as Indonesia SAS pattern but wrong design (color is too bright)= quality No.3 so it is such as wrong production, and the patches is totally wrong.
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    Post by panzerwerk Sat May 22, 2010 11:23 am

    Thanks for the info , so the jacket is real ??? and the Patches are completely wrong ?? someone else told me the patches were wrong as well , I dont know if I will change it . Thanks so much !!

    also from what I have read the colors are from the 80's they are not a recent color pattern.
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    Post by Bujang Kandang Sat May 22, 2010 12:06 pm

    Yes....correct patches is totally wrong placed.
    Paskhas=Pasukan Khas= extraordinary forces, has issued new color for their current pattern, wearing in occasionally and in special ceremonial or in special mission,but pattern is almost similar, the current is brighter than previous color which is look faded.

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