ERDL

Picked up these 2 different and interesting  ERDL blouses awhile back .

One is an early RDF  dated 1978 in a rare size XL and in green dominant fabric in unused condition.   Most RDF types are brown dominant although I've seen blouses and trousers made of a mix of both fabric types.

The other one is dated 1970 and made of  brown dominant fabric in near new conditions.    I have included a photo of well worn 1970 dated brown dominant trousers as contrast.
Looks like black color has turned purple ish  and the other colors show some  fading..

While brown dominant jungle uniforms are not uncommon, they seem to be harder to find than  green dominant types.  

They also seem to have been issued to US Marines in greater numbers, thus a large part of available brown pattern blouses have an EGA decal on left  top pocket .
Usually names were stenciled on trousers ( either above right rear pocket , or on right cargo pocket flap ) and sometimes the back of  blouse as well..






                                                                                                                                     



                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                      





                                                                                                                                       



                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                        


                                                                                                                                          




S

Here is an example of mixed patterns .  

A scarce green dominant RDF type trousers with brown dominant cargo pockets and rear pocket covers.


                                                                                             

                                                                                              


                                                                                              

                                                                                              


                                                                                                 
Also of notice is a small area near hand pocket where the color black has turned to a weird grayish.  I've seen entire garments that have the same type of fading where black color fades into silvery, or grayish color.



                                                                                               


S

Nice crisp examples!

I've got an RDF jacket in the "purple" faded type.  Like yours, Brown Dominant 1978 contract.  I also have this 1978 RDF trousers where the black faded out to a very light gray.

Steve

Steve..

Thanks for your comments and photo of weirdly faded RDF trousers. Very cool, BTW.

I invite all members to post any strange/ different ERDL types in their collections regardless of whether they may be Vietnam era slant pocket, or RDF types .


Have noticed that my latest brown dominant Vietnam era slant pocket blouse has green dominant fabric on right cuff.

                                                                         







S

I've long taken a strange interest in the uncharacteristically sloppy mixing of the two patterns by US contractors as well as the examples of poor quality control on the colors.

I've categorized the cloth into three different types:

Vietnam Green Dominant
Vietnam Brown Dominant
Transitional Brown Dominant

The latter lacks the fuzzy edges that the Vietnam types and clearly has the same colors later used wit the M82 BDU.

Here's a really crazy one that I saw on eBay (IIRC) and three samples side by side from my collection:




Steve

These are my 3 sub types of RDF ERDL  .

The middle one is the most common .  The green dominant is new while the others look like they could have been worn once or twice . No signs of insignia or tapes sown onto them.


I find the tags/ labels on various  RDF garments interesting as there were 2  main different types with variations, of course.
My oldest RDF blouse dates  from 1977. My newest is probably from '81.




                                                           


                                                           
                                                            








S

Here is an interesting photo of a mix of RDF and Vietnam era type ERDL uniforms worn during Operation Urgent Fury.


                                       












S

Love the pocket on the guy on the left. Super obvious green dom. Gotta say, that's a nice collection of supersize ERDLs. One on the right looks strange to me for some reason. I know there were at least three types, but I could have sworn that I had one brown dom different than the right two.

Hey G..

That photo confirms Vietnam era ERDL and RDF  patterns were used by certain units even while M81 was general issue and sometimes right up to the cut off date of around 1986 for all other working uniforms..

(OG107 jungle uniforms were also  favored by Ranger units; some units of the 101st.Abn. Division retained the OG 107 until the cutoff date.)

I wore 3 different types of working uniforms during my service in the NY National Guard in the '80s.      Have seen as many as 5 and even 6  different uniforms worn simultaneously during those years.


I think almost everyone of my RDF blouses differ slightly in some way.    Most of the differences are due to fading, but we do know of at least  3 legit sub patterns.

Have added an unused brown dominant blouse to the 3 we have already seen and compared it to the one that was among the original 3.

The green colors are the obvious main difference besides some light fading on the washed blouse.   Is the difference in green colors due to minimal washing, or is it a slightly different hue to begin with ?




                                                                                 


                                                                                   

                                                                                  



The unused brown dominant blouse is interesting for it's use of 2 tags as opposed to one  large tag in the neck area as per most RDF blouses.
It has a  small size tag  at the neck,and  the larger tag on reverse side of right bottom pocket, as  used in Vietnam era ERDL .  
The contract number dates to 1977 ; the contractor was a government entity ( interesting history; look up Defense Personnel Support Center ).



                                                                               

                                                                                


                                                                               



S

The fading is what always confused me. Sometimes it seems that even if a pattern is faded in one place, the other could still be the same pattern, but could also just as equally be a different production run. Personally I love this era of uniforms. Yes, even the OG-107's with the RDF cut (maybe especially). Such a strange and haphazard time for US uniforms. I actually even had a RDF ERDL uniform in a RAID cut before (since have sold it). Nothing solid about its origins, but I can certainly imagine SF using the older pattern way into 1990's-2000's.

ripcord wrote:
                                                                                 

What's the pattern on the far right one?

I have some of these mixed pattern items (ie different pattern pockets etc..) will have to dig them out one day...

There were also solid green RDF uniforms right? Pretty sure I've seen some photos of them.

That's what Rip and I were referencing.

Here:


And sorry S, brain scattered, hello! Long time no see

I've got an RDF cut poplin OD jungle jacket somewhere. Was told they were a popular CIA training uniform.

Here is an OD RDF cut blouse.   Pants are nearly impossible to find but blouses pop up on occasion..

I've seen ( and at some point  had ) bogus copies of these uniforms. Some had slightly slanted RDF type pockets, others did not.


                                                                             

                                                                             








S

Martin..

Pattern on far right is an RDF ERDL with a 1979 contract date.  Label is well worn; nearly impossible to read the contract date but it is 1979.

This type of sub pattern was only produced in 1979 as far as I know.
I have trousers with same characteristics and same contract date and contractor, but colors  look slightly differ from the blouse.  
Previously thought the blouse was in newer conditions, but it does have obvious signs of use and at some point did have tapes sown above chest pockets..

Label on trousers,on the other hand, looks very clean with consecutive contract numbers to the blouse.

                                                                     

                                                                      


                                                                      



                                                                    

                                                                   

When placed next to one another and looked at closely, the blouse and trousers look very similar, but when seen from a greater distance, the difference is  obvious.
While not another sub pattern, it's interesting to see garments from the same factory with similar contract numbers having such differences in colors.



                                                                     

                                                                     



S

Here is a bit of an oddity.

Brown dominant 1970 issue with USMC EGA ( Eagle, Globe, Anchor.) and very faded  US Navy tape.
Nametapes were not usually worn on USMC/USN combat uniforms in those days ; name and service number is stenciled on inside lower back.



                                                         


                                                         


                                                         


                                                         


S

Nice stuff! I'm unfamiliar with that 1979 sub variant. Interesting. I wonder how much of the cloth color variation was intentional and how much was accidental. Certainly the large runs of Vietnam era cloth were fairly consistent from batch to batch. So it raises some questions as to why such a short years later had so much variation in it.

Yeah, the RDF OD jacket is hard enough to find, but the trousers are nowhere to be found. There are commercial versions out there, for sure. I have a used set that I'm keeping with my jacket since I don't think I'll ever find trousers.

Steve

An interesting early (1977 ) RDF brown dominant ..
This one is very clean.


                                                                             

                                                                            





S

Now that is some documentation! I noticed over the years the great variation in ERDL, particularly in the RDF uniforms but just figured it was experimentation with dyeing and coloration.
This is my latest RDF piece, dated 1978. It seems to be one of those that suffers from poor black dye that is turning grayish/purplish, depending on the light.

one shirt from 1977-1979 estimate contract (with washed out spots)


trouser from 1980 contract (with clear spots)


comparison

I assume you would be the guys to ask as you seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the topic, I had a few questions on the ERDL RDF and OD RDF uniforms.

First off, I have seen the following 2 markings in the uniforms:

Coat, Hot Weather, Camouflage Pattern - 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981
Trousers, Hot Weather, Camouflage Pattern - 1978, 1979

Coat, Hot Weather, Camouflage Pattern Class 2 - 1979
Trousers, Camouflage, Poplin, Class 2 - 1980

I don't really know what the difference is between the normal and class 2 as they seems to be the same? I only own a class 2 coat though so I have only be able to compare via photos online.

The RDF(which I assume is a collector term and not official) was made in both green and brown dominant(as seen here) but the brown seems to be the most common by 1980 or so, correct?

Lastly, I know the ERDL RDF was used by Marines, paras, and some of SF units and RDF units, but who used the OD version? I don't really see it in photos much.

Class 1 refers to OG 107 jungle uniforms and Class 2 refers to ERDL type camouflage jungle uniforms.  

Most ERDL type camouflage garments have Class 2 written in their  labels but some do not. Mostly the early non ripstop , but have seen ripstop as well.  There is no difference between them.

Brown dominant RDF type is alot more common than Green dominant RDF type of all contract dates I am aware of..

As we have seen there is also a type with a contract date of 1979 with colors close to the later M81 BDU.


Not quite certain why OG107 RDF types even existed.  A  large stock of Vietnam era  OG107  uniforms remained after that conflict ended and they were available to whatever unit  needed tropical uniforms.

They served along side  the OG107 RDF types until the mid '80s, although the RFD types were never issued in large numbers.

I believe the Olive RDF uniforms were only issued to army units .






S

McTAZ wrote:one shirt from 1977-1979 estimate contract (with washed out spots)


trouser from 1980 contract (with clear spots)


comparison

Sorry for ( very) late reply.

Blouse is made of leftover Vietnam war era brown dominant fabric, thus it has fuzzy edges, while trousers ( dated 1980 ) are made of post war RDF brown dominant fabric with clear edges.

Here is an 1980 contract brown dominant with clear edges.

This one was issued, washed and likely never used; lots of clearly visible excess thread, especially near all pockets.

Getting hard to find in these conditions.