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    My Belgian collection.

    Lizardgrunt
    Lizardgrunt
    Lizardgrunt


    Location : België
    Registration date : 2023-02-24
    Number of posts : 8
    • Post n°1

    My Belgian collection. Empty My Belgian collection.

    Post by Lizardgrunt Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:06 pm

    Hey all!

    So this is my Belgian Kit.

    Gonna start off with my Belgian smocks and later add on all my other equipment and uniforms once I properly photographed them.

    First up.

    1949/50 Handpainted Smock.
    My Belgian collection. WmkkTyn

    1952 Paratrooper Smock.
    My Belgian collection. PLyKDW2

    1954 Full Zip Smock.
    My Belgian collection. Arp4rwX

    1954 "Moon & Balls" Paratrooper Smock.
    My Belgian collection. RMjRXVo

    1956 Infantry Smock with Hood.
    My Belgian collection. 3sFHn4R

    1975 "Brushstroke" Paratrooper Smock.
    My Belgian collection. LU2IeEo

    No tag Windproof type Smock. (Might be civilian)
    My Belgian collection. 5P9iVNN

    1958 Infantry Smock with Hood in 1st pattern Jigsaw camo.
    My Belgian collection. HAQ4eh1

    No tag Full zip "Jigsaw" paratrooper Smock.
    My Belgian collection. Qm9MEmc

    1982 Paratrooper Smock.
    My Belgian collection. V6bs6Zu

    1993 Paratrooper Smock.
    My Belgian collection. YFBC4Mj

    1952 Windproof Style Trousers.
    My Belgian collection. P6yai9p

    1954 ZM.F.N. Marked Trousers.
    My Belgian collection. PUwjrDX

    "Moon & Balls" Puptent.
    My Belgian collection. YtL4ayC

    These are all the photo's I had on hand. I'll be adding more at a later date.

    Cheers!
    Wouter.

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    CollectinSteve
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    • Post n°2

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by CollectinSteve Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:20 pm

    Very nice collection! I really like the colors of your 1954 smock and 1952 trousers. I think the lighter green is more effective than the darker green. Looks better to me too Wink

    The most interesting item for me is your WW2 British style "Windproof" smock. I have one of these in my collection and I am happy to see a second one. I also suspect it is civilian, but it could also be something that was custom made for Para/CDO. Either way, I suspect it was made from old shelter halves. My example doesn't have any markings either

    Steve

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    Lizardgrunt
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    Location : België
    Registration date : 2023-02-24
    Number of posts : 8
    • Post n°3

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by Lizardgrunt Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:15 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Very nice collection!  I really like the colors of your 1954 smock and 1952 trousers.  I think the lighter green is more effective than the darker green.  Looks better to me too Wink

    The most interesting item for me is your WW2 British style "Windproof" smock.  I have one of these in my collection and I am happy to see a second one.  I also suspect it is civilian, but it could also be something that was custom made for Para/CDO.  Either way, I suspect it was made from old shelter halves.  My example doesn't have any markings either

    Steve

    Thanks!

    Yes, from the "brushstroke" style camo's I prefer the lighter ones too.

    It could be custom made yes, Maybe on squad or platoon level. I have also suspected that it might have been made for the boy scouts or other similar youth movements.


    Wouter.
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    CollectinSteve
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    • Post n°4

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by CollectinSteve Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:10 am

    Another possibility is they were made for reenactors before good quality reproductions were available. The very peculiar way the hood is attached is identical to the British construction:

    My Belgian collection. 100_2611

    The above is a picture of Gilles' set, I think, that I found it on another forum. I think I recognize the background Smile

    Steve
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    Lizardgrunt
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    Location : België
    Registration date : 2023-02-24
    Number of posts : 8
    • Post n°5

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by Lizardgrunt Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:43 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:Another possibility is they were made for reenactors before good quality reproductions were available.  The very peculiar way the hood is attached is identical to the British construction:

    My Belgian collection. 100_2611

    The above is a picture of Gilles' set, I think, that I found it on another forum.  I think I recognize the background Smile

    Steve

    Ah yes, also a very good possibility.

    Wouter.
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    Lizardgrunt
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    Location : België
    Registration date : 2023-02-24
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    • Post n°6

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by Lizardgrunt Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:42 pm

    So here's part 2.

    Mostly uniforms again.

    Starting with the older stuff.

    A 1962 dated BD jacket and trousers. 1st Belgian army corps, Transport Troops. (if i'm not mistaken.)
    My Belgian collection. QFLMWttlMy Belgian collection. 5A0kB2vl

    A 1950's BD jacket, "Sergeant" 16th Division, Ordonance Troops. (No tag)
    My Belgian collection. MlCVlydlMy Belgian collection. B1G7Tchl

    "Officer Style" BD jacket, dated 1950.
    My Belgian collection. UvC0lvolMy Belgian collection. HNkOi6Hl

    Regular BD jacket, dated 1952.
    My Belgian collection. Zibmgb5lMy Belgian collection. NQICCLll

    1950's BD jacket, "Korporaal" 16th Division, Engineer Troops. (No date on tag)
    My Belgian collection. OEbJG13lMy Belgian collection. EC3Uookl
    My Belgian collection. Mh0SkAfl

    Dress Shirts, Dated 1949, 1950, 1951.
    My Belgian collection. HKsptKMlMy Belgian collection. UBPj8gbl
    My Belgian collection. Xm9AAIElMy Belgian collection. EHLKPs0l
    My Belgian collection. WruIazSlMy Belgian collection. BfTcTYzl

    Work/Field jacket 50/60's. (Tag torn off)
    My Belgian collection. Lc1r8ZZl

    Long sleeved undershirt. dated 1951.
    My Belgian collection. LrP17cAlMy Belgian collection. JNojDeUl

    BD Trousers, Dated 1949.
    My Belgian collection. 2Mqx07ClMy Belgian collection. ZXQCbzul

    BD Trousers late 50's, Early 60's
    My Belgian collection. 03ICeLflMy Belgian collection. 8fE0bJWl

    Canvas BD Trousers, Dated 1951.
    My Belgian collection. PO9Lidfl
    My Belgian collection. OqdkFxVlMy Belgian collection. 6nkOVcnl

    Canvas BD Trousers, 1960's
    My Belgian collection. 6Ap6P3ql

    "jacket Liner" Dated 1958.
    My Belgian collection. P37WO60lMy Belgian collection. DJOyc3rl

    1950's Trouser Suspenders.
    My Belgian collection. 8jc9USelMy Belgian collection. UueuWfOl

    Khaki Tie, (1956?)
    My Belgian collection. HqEuRanlMy Belgian collection. HqEuRanl

    Camo Net Scarf. (WW2 Style)
    My Belgian collection. YwG3lDDl

    Wool Balaclava, Dated 1951.
    My Belgian collection. 0dYIvbKlMy Belgian collection. QDeONfRl

    This is most of my older uniforms, I have a few more that i still have to pick up or get from storage.
    So there is more to come.

    Cheers,
    Wouter
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    CRjackson37
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    • Post n°7

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by CRjackson37 Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:15 am

    Great collection, were the Brushstroke and jigsaw camouflage smocks used alongside each other or were they issued to different units at different times. Did mixing occur?
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    CollectinSteve
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    • Post n°8

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by CollectinSteve Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:16 am

    CRjackson37 wrote:Great collection, were the Brushstroke and jigsaw camouflage smocks used alongside each other or were they issued to different units at different times. Did mixing occur?

    Complex question Wink

    Moon & Balls and Brushstroke were worn together well into the 1960s. I have Brushstroke items made as late as 1975 IIRC. Jigsaw was issued in 1958. I do not know if certain units wore them or if it was intended for different environments. I do know they were both made in massive quantities and yet the soldiers for the most part wore olive drab uniforms! The exceptions were Para/CDO and units on UN missions. For these units they wore Jigsaw.

    Until the late 1990s Para/CDO were allowed to wear whatever they wanted. You can see Brushstroke and, I think, two 1958 Jigsaw jackets worn by these snipers:

    My Belgian collection. Sniper10

    Further complications come from "open house" days where the Para/CDOs interacted with the public. I have some pictures of paras wearing different things at such an event in 1991:

    My Belgian collection. Belgia10
    My Belgian collection. Belgia11

    Note the para with the Brushstroke smock is wearing badging. That was, at the time, contrary to regulations. I guess for such events it was OK.

    Complicating things further is that Belgian soldiers were only issued 2 uniforms (I think it was 2) and if they damaged them they had to pay for new ones. Therefore, for some duties they would wear old uniforms or even foreign ones. In 2004 I sent a few hundred US Woodland BDUs to Para/CDO so they could wear them as work uniforms (they liked US uniforms). Regulations changed soon after after the 1997 standard uniforms became common. Para/CDOs were instructed to wear only current (post 1997) issued uniforms from that point on.

    I think that covers the topic pretty well Smile Maybe Wouter has more details or some corrections.

    Steve

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    tkurt
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    • Post n°9

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    Post by tkurt Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:10 pm

    Belgian made windproof smocks were worn by the belgian army in the 1950's.
    Here are two photo's :
    My Belgian collection. Reith-10
    My Belgian collection. S-l16011

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    Lizardgrunt
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    • Post n°10

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    Post by Lizardgrunt Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:51 pm

    Hello,

    As far as I am aware mixing of camo uniforms sure did happen.

    This picture shows both Brushstroke and jigsaw smocks in use.
    My Belgian collection. VDM9nSz

    I remember seeing pictures before, where the different camo patterns where mixed. But I couldn't find them directly.

    Cheers,
    Wouter

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    CollectinSteve
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    • Post n°11

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    Post by CollectinSteve Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:26 pm

    Lizardgrunt wrote:Hello,

    As far as I am aware mixing of camo uniforms sure did happen.

    This picture shows both Brushstroke and jigsaw smocks in use.
    My Belgian collection. VDM9nSz

    I remember seeing pictures before, where the different camo patterns where mixed. But I couldn't find them directly.

    Cheers,
    Wouter

    This is interesting! That is a Marines unit? If so, the sailors are wearing Moon & Balls para smocks while the commander (officer?) is wearing an "infantry" Jigsaw jacket. I have pictures of ZM/FN marked M&B smock dated 1955 and Jigsaw jacket (and trousers) dated 1962. Later on Marines had Jigsaw para smocks (with buttons instead of snaps) and even a gray Lizard para smock.

    Steve
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    CRjackson37
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    • Post n°12

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    Post by CRjackson37 Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:55 pm

    Thank you for posting the photo. I'm really interested in the older jigsaw smocks. Can you explain why it existed alongside brushstroke for so long before it took over completely? Were they simply using up older brushstroke camouflage cloth until the 1970's?
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    • Post n°13

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by Antarmike Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:56 am

    Lizardgrunt wrote:Hello,

    As far as I am aware mixing of camo uniforms sure did happen.

    This picture shows both Brushstroke and jigsaw smocks in use.
    My Belgian collection. VDM9nSz

    I remember seeing pictures before, where the different camo patterns where mixed. But I couldn't find them directly.

    Cheers,
    Wouter
    My Belgian collection. Zaire-1978-belgian-paratroopers-and-foreign-legion-troops-in-kolwezi-ac57yf
    My Belgian collection. Mortar
    My Belgian collection. 50802586-10218750367494389-7323147701875376128-n
    My Belgian collection. 51515910-10218808338183620-1624487859777961984-n
    My Belgian collection. 90682581-592018341661592-3982185207452139520-o
    My Belgian collection. 278460706-10221171457301162-8484372179583069169-n
    My Belgian collection. 278377764-10221171451381014-1532573818749482523-n
    My Belgian collection. 278579831-10221171462701297-7759485511577935049-n
    My Belgian collection. Screenshot-366
    My Belgian collection. Screenshot-652
    My Belgian collection. Taktiekminervalh4

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    Lizardgrunt
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    Location : België
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    • Post n°14

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by Lizardgrunt Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:02 pm

    CRjackson37 wrote:Thank you for posting the photo. I'm really interested in the older jigsaw smocks. Can you explain why it existed alongside brushstroke for so long before it took over completely? Were they simply using up older  brushstroke camouflage cloth until the 1970's?

    Yes, That is basically what happend. From what I gattered, for the Belgian Military camo equals camo. (Excluding specific units) The patterns themselfs where irrelevant.
    You'd just get issued whatever there was in stock in your size.

    The reason why they went with Jigsaw is probably because it was a uniquely Belgian Camoflage.
    Unlike brushstroke style camo's who have variants all over the world.


    Wouter.

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    Lizardgrunt
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    Location : België
    Registration date : 2023-02-24
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    • Post n°15

    My Belgian collection. Empty Re: My Belgian collection.

    Post by Lizardgrunt Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:17 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:
    Lizardgrunt wrote:Hello,

    As far as I am aware mixing of camo uniforms sure did happen.

    This picture shows both Brushstroke and jigsaw smocks in use.
    My Belgian collection. VDM9nSz

    I remember seeing pictures before, where the different camo patterns where mixed. But I couldn't find them directly.

    Cheers,
    Wouter

    This is interesting!  That is a Marines unit?  If so, the sailors are wearing Moon & Balls para smocks while the commander (officer?) is wearing an "infantry" Jigsaw jacket.  I have pictures of ZM/FN marked M&B smock dated 1955 and Jigsaw jacket (and trousers) dated 1962.  Later on Marines had Jigsaw para smocks (with buttons instead of snaps) and even a gray Lizard para smock.

    Steve

    Yes, Caption on the photo said "Belgian "Marines" bound for the Congo".

    Going by the sailors cap I think its an NCO. An Officer would wear a peaked cap I think.

    That reminds me of something my father told me about his national service with the airforce in 88/89.
    While they got issued older P37 webbing and plain OD parka's most of the NCO and Officers (The carreer soldier) wore brand new Jigsaw smocks or Smarties (Flecktarn) parka's.

    Never seen one of those grey lizard camo smocks. Would love one for the collection but probably as rare as the 2 tone Korea ones.

    Wouter
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