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    My Israeli Stuff

    TennoHeikaNate
    TennoHeikaNate
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant


    Name : Nate
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2013-10-16
    Number of posts : 337

    My Israeli Stuff Empty My Israeli Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:34 am

    Hey guys, another dump thread here! Nothing too outstanding, just some odds and ends I've picked up over the years.
    Once again, feel free to share your own stuff, comment, or call me out on anything I get wrong!



    First off is a basic field cap, no tag or markings but a name written on the underside of the brim.
    You can see them being worn particularly in Lebanon in the early 80's.

    My Israeli Stuff Idf_od10
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    A basic "Bet" uniform, with the previous cap standing in for a matching era one.
    The earlier 70's Bet shirts seem to have had exposed buttons and the yellow lettering on the "Zahal" tape over the pocket, so I'm guessing this is an 80's or later set. Both tags are missing.
    You can see a faint "Zahal" stamp under the right cargo pocket of the trousers, and the left thigh has a field dressing pocket under the left cargo pocket.

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    An empty cover/carrier of the "Schapatz" Fragmentation Vest, copy of the US M-1969, dated 1985.
    These used to be cheap and plentiful, but seemed to have largely dried up. Rarely did I see any that still had their armor though.

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    A pair of 1978 dated 5.56mm ammo cans.
    The fronts read:
    800 bullets 5.56 mm
    Regular
    Series: (78-23-WCC)
    40 cardboard (carton?), 20 balls in the bag

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    A basic set of the older IDF canvas webbing, very much a hybrid of Brit 37/58 pattern with some US M-1936 touches, and some of the Israeli's own designs.
    I regretfully didn't take any pics of the individual pieces before I put it together when I got it, but most all pieces are dated to the mid-late 70's.
    The small P37 style rucksack (there was also a large P37 style rucksack) is actually permanently sewn onto the H-harness on this example.
    It features two earlier type Galil double magazine pouches with the velcro tab/metal ring closure. Another style saw the metal ring mounted to the front middle of the pouch lid, rather than sorta hanging from the bottom as on these ones.
    An empty canteen carrier, dated 1977, and a 1976 dated 5-cell magazine pouch for the Uzi, with adjustable snap retainers to adjust to whatever size capacity magazines you had.
    The belt is like a US M-1936 but with a British style buckle, and features an adjustable loop on the rear that corresponds to a tab on the rear of the H-harness with M-1910 hanger grommets to hang the e-tool from the lid, and secure the handle to the rear of the web belt via that loop, if the pack is not worn, which otherwise the e-tool would simply be attached to the same style of M-1910 grommets on the rear lid of the pack.
    Below that, another older web belt without the e-tool loop on the rear, a 1983 double grenade pouch with adjustable closures for different types of grenades, and what I believe to be an FAL cleaning kit pouch.
    There were other pouches available like a holster, compass pouch, "revolver" ammunition pouch, rifle grenade pouch, binocular case, and others.
    Many of these were later produced in OD nylon, which I'll cover in a bit.
    I'm also including some pics of a 1969 dated manual for the IDF webbing that was (is?) listed on the 'bay, although the seller wanted a bit too much for my blood, otherwise I would love to have scanned and translated the whole thing.

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    A 1970's IDF M1 helmet, mostly Israeli made but with some US parts like the 1974 nape strap. The liner features Zahal heat marks, and the shell is a 3-point chinstrap type, although one bail is missing.
    It also has this nice field made camouflage netted burlap cover and inner tube band to help hold it on, and personalized writing on the interior sweatband and straps.

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    A US made-for-export M65 field jacket, made by Glenn Barry Inc., with a Zahal stamp on the interior under the US tag and one over the left chest pocket.
    The nomenclature tag is almost entirely normal except it has no US gov't contract info, as it is a Foreign Military Sales item.
    Curiously I've seen IDF copies of the US M51/65 type jackets dated as early as 1969, while this US FMS one seems to be from the 70's. I'm guessing the IDF was having a hard time procuring uniforms at that point and needed assistance.

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    And another example of a US made item in IDF service; a 1971 dated Shirt, Hot Weather, Flyers, originally made for aircrews in hot weather, particularly Vietnam.
    However, photos of the IDF in Lebanon in 1982 (I don't think they were provided by the time of Yom Kippur, but not sure though) show what seems to be mostly tankers/armored vehicle crewmen wearing sets of these, although I've also seen photos of officers and IDF photographers/journalists wearing them, so maybe they weren't exclusive to tankers. This example is actually not a US FMS/export item, but rather an original US government contract shirt that was either surplused/sold/donated to the IDF.
    It's hard to see on my example, but besides the Zahal stamp over the left chest pocket, there's another similar stamp over the right pocket that translates: "FIRE RESISTANT".
    My guess is that so supply guys would know to give these to tankers or those in positions who might need them.

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    Brigadier General Yossi Ben-Hanan, head of the Combat Theory Department, who joined the landing command ship Valkhah.
    My Israeli Stuff Brigad10
    Emanuel Rosen, then a writer for Bamahana, and Major Avraham (Abarsha) Tamir.
    My Israeli Stuff Emanue10
    Yossi Ben Hanan - next to him Meir Dagan, Haim Nadel and beside him Amos Yaron.
    My Israeli Stuff Yossi_10


    The main pic is unfortunately an old one, but here's my Orlite helmet, not sure exactly which model. The Zahal stickers are mostly ripped off which are unusually bright green rather than white, and it doesn't have the neoprene "donut" pad in the crown but it does have the upgraded HSAT type chinstrap with RBH quick release black plastic buckle, so maybe it's an earlier M76~OR-201 that was partially upgraded to M76/85~OR-202?
    It has two holes drilled through the sides, presumably to add an older style riot face shield, and has a lot of the same style of padding found in the "M83" paratrooper helmets they exported to South Africa.
    An additional fun bit, I bought this years ago from a Hollywood prop store that had a ton of them for only $40 each, only about a year or two after World War Z came out, which happened to feature tons of these helmets on IDF extras during the Jerusalem portion of that film. They had no certificates of authenticity for anything they carried but I wouldn't doubt these were at least purchased and imported for that film.

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    Going back to webbing, here's an assortment of nylon variants of the various pouches previously made for the old canvas webbing.
    I have no idea when these were first introduced; there's some scant faded Zahal stamps on a couple of these but most seem worn away or were never stamped very well in the first place.
    I also don't know if these were supposed to go with their own nylon web belt/suspender system or if there were just supposed to supplement the existing canvas webbing or be attached to new LBV's as needed.
    Compass pouch, copied off the British P44 model.

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    Double grenade pouch
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    "Revolver" pouch, or at least that's how it was advertised. I forgot to take an interior pic but the inside has many loops on both front and back to hold individual rounds.
    While it could certainly be used by officers carrying revolvers, I think it would make more sense that it would carry blank rounds and be worn/used in conjunction with rifle grenades.

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    And the 5-cell Uzi mag pouch. Other nylon variants available were the Galil magazine pouches and canteen carriers. I don't know if they ever made a nylon carrier for the e-tool.
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    An IDF armored vehicle crewman's chest rig/LBV/harness.
    Sometimes called the R1 or the recon vest by collectors or sellers, but every source I could find on it refers to them being used by vehicle crewmen.
    It features four front magazine pouches, three single and the leftmost (as worn) is a double for a total of x5 magazines, or it could fit a handheld radio.
    The sides of the magazine pouches also have slots for pens/chemlights/pen flares, etc., and the flaps have grommets so a cord or string can be tied through them to allow them to be opened with gloved hands.
    The rear has a small buttpack with a small internal divider, two loops on the inside of the lid, and two single grenade pouches flanking each side of the buttpack, as well as M-1910 grommets for additional pouches.
    The plastic buckles and rear strap bar are Swedish made, and it has buckles on both shoulder straps and both sides of the front panel to allow it to be taken on/off multiple ways.
    There are also slots behind each pouch on both panels so that additional things can be tucked between the pouches and main body panels of the vest.

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    A tanker training in the Negev, unknown date.
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    And finally as an extra, a curious "horned" plastic helmet worn by the Israeli HAGA הג"א (Civil Defense), replacing the old British style helmets sometime in the 80's or early 90's.
    Initially used by the Bombardment Defense Services and featuring a shield triple bomb logo, this later production one (probably 90's or 00's) has a different logo, presumably for the Home Front Command פיקוד העורף, Pikud HaOref (PAKAR/HFC).
    They could be seen worn by Israeli CD personnel during rescue operations in Tel Aviv during the Gulf War in 1991 when they were hit by Iraqi SCUD missiles.
    While the Israelis replaced these by the 2000's and they can still be found on the surplus market for as little as $10 like this one, they were still worn by Palestinians in the later 2000's, though I don't know if they still use them either.
    I've also seen at least one white painted one with red MP markings.

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    And that's all for now!
    Enjoy!
    -Nate
    Camonut314
    Camonut314
    Sergeant Major
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    Location : California
    Registration date : 2011-12-12
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    My Israeli Stuff Empty Re: My Israeli Stuff

    Post by Camonut314 Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:41 pm

    For as much as I love, and we as collectors tend to fawn over, the looks and overly-complicated construction of those cold-war Western European uniforms, there is something I have always admired about the stark simplicity and pragmatism of the Israeli uniform- and, really, in everything they do. Of COURSE the webbing would be a cross between US and British, so that they could make ready use of all the surplus they were given. And it always makes me wonder why other nations didn't follow the same route, if not as far as the Israelis took their miserliness, holding on to all manner of material long past its clear obsolescence. Most of the Nylon webbing I've seen seems dated after the Ephod vests and their derivatives more or less became standard issue for the front-line IDF soldier, and that flak vest cover you have is dated 1985, even though it seems to me that most photos you see of the fighting in Lebanon, the troops have the Israeli version of the PASGT (Which I am STILL trying to find!). Might explain why yours looks so minty, though? Waste not, want not and all that. Still, perhaps if they weren't too busy exporting equipment to South and Central America, they might have had extra for use at home. Anyway, nice seeing the contemporary surplus, thanks for sharing!

    p.s. Just noticed that the soldier in the manual has a 'standard' FAL, as opposed to the heavy-barrel FALO version you see in 99% of the photographs. Interesting!

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    TennoHeikaNate
    TennoHeikaNate
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant


    Name : Nate
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2013-10-16
    Number of posts : 337

    My Israeli Stuff Empty Re: My Israeli Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:45 pm

    I've always like the weird asymetrical IDF LBVs and various other load bearing systems they've issued, shame even the most common, beat up ones are almost never available for under $200.
    And yeah, the Schapatz vest is a mystery to me; my guess is that they were for non-frontline forces since they are rarely heavily used and dated after Lebanon and in all my searching, I couldn't find any photos of them being worn.
    Great eye catching the standard FAL in the manual, I missed that one!
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    Nagmashdriver
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    Name : Steve Marcus
    Location : Central Highlands of Arizona, USA
    Registration date : 2024-01-26
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    Post by Nagmashdriver Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:49 pm

    Nice collection you have!

    One of your pouches with the catalog number ending in "85" is for a cleaning kit. Pouches like these were produced in several sizes only varying slightly in size but all in the same shape with LTD closure.

    They were specifically for mortars and bazookas, as in the French ones used in the 1960s-1970s and largely replaced by captured RPGs and newly-supplied American LAW.

    This picture is of me cleaning my 52mm mortar on a rare sunny day in the Golan Heights, winter of 1986-1987. My Israeli Stuff Mortar10

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    TennoHeikaNate
    TennoHeikaNate
    Senior Sergeant
    Senior Sergeant


    Name : Nate
    Location : USA
    Registration date : 2013-10-16
    Number of posts : 337

    My Israeli Stuff Empty Re: My Israeli Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:01 pm

    Thank you for the ID Steve! I had it narrowed down to "cleaning kit pouch" but wasn't sure for what, and I also wasn't aware there were multiple different sized ones, they don't seem to pop up very often over here.
    And thanks for sharing the great photo! Nothing like cleaning weapons outside in the dustiest environments possible...

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    Nagmashdriver
    Corporal
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    Name : Steve Marcus
    Location : Central Highlands of Arizona, USA
    Registration date : 2024-01-26
    Number of posts : 31

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    Post by Nagmashdriver Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:50 am

    You are most welcome, Nate. Very Happy

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