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Mercenary25
Philip
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    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded)

    bravo_2_zero
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    Post by bravo_2_zero Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:16 pm

    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_623159_5818
    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_623162_6858
    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_623163_7201

    Factory made, info/issue tag is located on the chest pocket are and not the hips.
    The jacket has a more tuck in shirt fit than a M81 modded, it seems to be tapered around the stomach area.
    Arms have internal USMC style foam inserts for protection
    Arm pockets feature IR tabs like ACU.
    All pockets are velro fastened.

    This is ALL factory done , not modded by 3rd party.
    Philip
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    Post by Philip Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:26 pm

    i have to disagree... i don't think they're the real deal. seems like a commercial item. i've had this shirt too but i sold it. there was a small label above the size tag which said made in honduras or whatever...
    also note the propper tag (never seen this on a genuine military item) and the green label. shouldn't it be tan?
    regards,
    philip


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    Post by Mercenary25 Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:41 pm

    It reminded me of Spec War Gear's Raid Jacket.

    http://www.specwargear.com/

    Edit: Actually, I think this jacket is legit since it has DLA contract numbers. Most of US. Military equipment have DLA, just like Nam era's DSA or earlier war's FSN.
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    Post by bravo_2_zero Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:46 pm

    derxsammler wrote:i have to disagree... i don't think they're the real deal. seems like a commercial item. i've had this shirt too but i sold it. there was a small label above the size tag which said made in honduras or whatever...
    also note the propper tag (never seen this on a genuine military item) and the green label. shouldn't it be tan?
    regards,
    philip

    Yes there is the propper tag , the tag can be any color , I've had white, green and tan in desert equipment. It could be a small order batch , i've got a Genuine OPFOR jacket with propper civvi label in which was ordered by Ft. Polk

    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_592152_1612
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    Post by Philip Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:20 pm

    ok, yes i saw some of the propper opfor stuff before on ebay. maybe privately purchased? i don't know... but that's a big problem (at least for me) in collecting...

    Mercenary25 wrote:Actually, I think this jacket is legit since it has DLA contract numbers. Most of US. Military equipment have DLA, just like Nam era's DSA or earlier war's FSN.
    didn't you mix something up? dla and dsa belong to the contract no and fsn to the (federal)stock no, right? or am i wrong?
    ok, there's a contract no but i don't know... this jacket seems some kinda weird to me. mine was manufactured somewhere in central america. wouldn't go with the berry amendment...


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    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:58 pm

    I have to agree... smells funny. The DLA number looks legit, but 1994 with ACU style arm pockets, glint tape, and velcro over the pockets just doesn't seem right to me.

    Propper is one of the prime uniform contractors for the US military. However, if there is any mention of Honduras, then it is one of their commercial pieces. The US DoD stuff is made 100% in the US, their commercial stuff (which is effectively the same as the DoD stuff) is partly made in Honduras.

    As for OPFOR clothing stuff... there is no such thing, officially. Each OPFOR unit (which can be small improvised ones) gets its own items, most likely from commercial or surplus stocks. Therefore, such uniforms fall into the "gray area" for collectors looking for genuine military articles. Used pieces with verifiable origins definitely cross the line into "official non-issued" as far as I'm concerned. Anything lacking a credible source should be considered commercial.

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    Post by bond007a1 Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:05 pm

    I DO know that Propper makes BOTH commercial & ISSUE items...I have both..the issue stuff will have the DLA...as others have stated....I am anxious to hear Arch's opinion on this one....He is a BIG mod jacket collector....

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    Post by bravo_2_zero Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:14 pm

    The OPFOR jacket came with these pants
    genuine Ft.Polk issue pants
    "DAKF24-96-0-0006" is a Fiscal Year 96 contract from Ft. Polk. ("DAKF" refers to the "Directorate of Contracting" for individual Army posts and the first two digits after the DAKF specify which post).
    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_580510_6944
    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_580507_1077

    jacket Not mine
    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) Post-214-1212761363
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    Post by nkomo Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:22 pm

    The Propper DCU jacket with the pockets on the sleeve that Bravo posted is quite an enigma. I have at least two and they are identical to the one Bravo posted. IF I am not mistaken, mine came out of the Virginia area. As a matter of fact, one of mine has velcro name tape and US NAVY tape. I had thought it might have been a SEAL jacket but was never able to ascertain that for sure. I had thought maybe a private purchase deal or maybe a unit buy.

    I have several regular Propper jackets with the Honduras tags that were used by soldiers in OIF/OEF. I have pulled them out of huge piles of used DCU's with patches still attached. I would say these jackets were private purchase pieces, since they are commercial. So, some Propper jackets with Honduras tags have been used by soldiers.

    Like Steve, I think the tag with the DLA number is fishy. In 1994, the modified jackets were still being done by SF units on a unit level. They did have glint tape, but never had any kind of attachment to cover it like the one shown in Bravo's picture. To me, I think Propper added these military-type tags to the jacket to boost the sales to the US market. That being said, I am not counting this jacket out as being possible military used.

    In a nut shell, there has been no comprehensive book written on modified jackets thus far. To most collectors, they are just surplus and nothing more. I have been collecting modified jackets for over 11 years now and have "accumulated" quite a few. The jacket Bravo posted appears to be a much later version of the modified jacket. BUT....since it was not modified by the soldier, then it technically isn't a modified jacket; rather it is a something between an ACU and a modified DCU. Sort of betwixt and between.


    Last edited by nkomo on Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Post by nkomo Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:24 pm

    .


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    Post by CollectinSteve Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:48 pm

    Yeah, it is the ACU style glint tape arrangement that makes my little sniffer wrinkle.

    As Arch said, tons of commercial stuff went to Iraq/Afghanistan. There's a good discussion about the gray area of "official" clothing in another thread.

    Arch, are either of your jackets in used condition? Used condition doesn't necessarily confirm anything, thanks especially to Airsoft, so for me I'm generally suspicious if a particular item is only seen in brand new condition AND there is something else to make me suspect something.

    Steve
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    Post by nkomo Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:31 pm

    CollectinSteve wrote:
    Arch, are either of your jackets in used condition? Used condition doesn't necessarily confirm anything, thanks especially to Airsoft, so for me I'm generally suspicious if a particular item is only seen in brand new condition AND there is something else to make me suspect something.

    Steve
    Actually, one is and it is the one that has the velcro name tapes. I bought both of them as examples to add to my collection as representative pieces. IF I ever do decide to write a book on modified jackets, I need to have plenty of examples for comparison.

    As a matter of fact, the used jacket has had the web straps that cover the IR squares removed. If I can locate the jacket, I'll pop the jacket up on here for your viewing. I honestly don't know what to think of these jackets. Question Question Question Question


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    Post by bravo_2_zero Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:56 am

    I have 2 of these jackets in this thread and the other is new with the white card barcode tag attached. other things to note about the jacket is the velcro for the pockets was sewn on the button flap but the button holes were not added.
    The glint tape on the jacket shown was added by me ( just for safe keeping as i loose stuff ), but the jacket does have 10mm x 10mm glint tape under the velcro on/off strips.

    This is another but was USAF done
    Genuine Issue Raid Jacket ( Not modded) N551878025_623160_6160

    The guy i got this from bought in a load of USAF helmets and several of theses were thrown in as padding. Again this is a propper jacket but was 3rd party modified But very closely matches the factory done one.
    The glint on this is more like the Hi-Viz stuff you find on a work mans jacket and reflects under any light at night.
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    Post by RTS Wed May 06, 2009 5:47 am

    I believe US Cavalry was marketing the ready-made RAID jackets from Propper at one point
    (about a year after I had suggested it to them and was shot down by the owner of US Cav...)

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