Some Czech camo

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    Post by koalorka on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:21 am

    Now here's an interesting uniform, even more obscure and elusive than the sumpf, a jump-style smock printed in the "mracky" pattern:

    Some Czech camo - Page 3 P4041314m
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    Post by panzerwerk on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:59 am

    Nice jacket , is it yours ??? That makes 2 I have seen in the Jump pattern , very rare !
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:51 pm

    Very, very rare indeed. 9 years ago I could have purchased one of these from a seller in the Czech Republic. But at the time PayPal didn't exist as an option and I was looking at around $75 added to the price of the jacket just for Western Union and shipping cost. I think that pushed the price into the $300 range IIRC. I'm sorry I didn't just suck it up and go for it.

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    Post by koalorka on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:23 pm

    Well, you know what they say about hindsight.. I got this one for 5,000 koruna, not too bad with the way the Canadian dollar is right now.

    The jacket is not in my posession yet, but I'm still digging around the Czech Republic for old uniforms. I found this "Mracky" oversuit top half, now I need a pair of matching pants, maybe someone here has a duplicate?

    Some Czech camo - Page 3 Blza1



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    Post by panzerwerk on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:30 pm

    there seems to be a ton of color variations in these , Very Cool !!
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:53 pm

    Photo looks a little blue tinted, but yeah... there's several variations.

    That's a pretty nice modified top. Decent condition for one of these.

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    Post by koalorka on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:55 pm

    How can you tell it's modified?

    Here is the reverse side:

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    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:56 pm

    Reissues were physically modified in several ways, but can differ from example to example. Basically, here are the main modifications:

    1. Hood removed.
    2. Collar added
    3. Mittens cut off
    4. Pass through pockets sewn shut
    5. Pocket added to "green" side
    6. Made non-reversible "green" side out

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    Post by koalorka on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:21 pm

    Steve, I think you may be confusing these with the "dubáky" overcoat, which to my knowledge was the only garment originally supplied with integral mittens, hood and face net. I agree, these were extensively modified upon re-issue and it's hard to find one intact.

    From what my Czech collector friend tells me, the "cloud" or "mraky" uniforms were only produced as the jump smock which I have posted above, Kongo jacket and the overcoat (the Czechs call it a převlečník), which is what I have in the last picture. These have a different arrangement of features than the "dubáky" and were issued to reconnaissance units.

    Here is an unaltered "dubáky" overcoat for comparison:

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    Some Czech camo - Page 3 P4081320

    Let me know what you think.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:38 am

    koalorka wrote:Steve, I think you may be confusing these with the "dubáky" overcoat, which to my knowledge was the only garment originally supplied with integral mittens, hood and face net. I agree, these were extensively modified upon re-issue and it's hard to find one intact.

    There were three uniforms produced with the hood/mittens configuration. All three were identical and based on the Russian WW2 style:

    1. "Leibermuster" (dubáky)
    2. Clouds (several variants)
    3. Green Grass (cloth with artificial grass sprigs sewn into it)

    #1 and #2 were extensively reworked, I don't believe #3 was.

    I have unmodified #1 and #3, I have have several pictures (from collectors and from period photos) of #2 in the same configuration. In short... there's no doubt Very Happy

    From what my Czech collector friend tells me, the "cloud" or "mraky" uniforms were only produced as the jump smock which I have posted above, Kongo jacket and the overcoat (the Czechs call it a převlečník), which is what I have in the last picture. These have a different arrangement of features than the "dubáky" and were issued to reconnaissance units.

    Not correct. Besides a bunch of color variants of the sniper/scout oversuit (#2 above), there is the jump smock and also a VERY rare (i.e. I've only seen one!) coat in the same model as vz60. Steve H has one and it's pictured around here somewhere. I don't know what the Kongo jacket is. Do you have a picture of it?

    So to recap, that reversible top you pictured is a reworked sniper/scout top. I've had maybe 4 of the modified "mraky" types in my hands, and 2 or 3 of the "dubáky" type. They are all share the common traits I mentioned above for reworks.

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    Post by panzerwerk on Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:24 am

    Here ya go ! one of my prize pieces !

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    Post by koalorka on Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:25 am

    Then I stand corrected. Very good info!

    The "Congo" style is what the Czechs call the long camouflage jackets with the two slanted frontal lower pockets, like Steve's example above.
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    Post by panzerwerk on Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:29 am

    I dont know where this Kongo thing came from , its standard vz60 cut identical to the rain pattern stuff as Steve mentioned already , BTW this is posted on the first post of this topic I started.
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    Post by koalorka on Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:33 am

    I have no idea why they call it that either. Perhaps it was these jackets printed in "Mlok" that were first shipped to communist insurgents in Africa?


    Last edited by koalorka on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by panzerwerk on Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:36 am

    Could be , I have seen some pics of this pattern in Africa , Czech stuff is varied , and interesting , I see so many variations , I love the stuff !

    BTW , the jacket is very thick heavy weight fabric , and would suck in a hot climate , I cant imagine it would be very popular .
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:47 pm

    If the Belgians could fight in the Congo in canvas uniforms over another uniform, well... let's just say I don't understand military logic sometimes!

    Thanks for reposting that pic, Steve. It's good for koalorka to see the piece of your collection I covet most Wink

    The jacket is identical for Mlok (Salamander), Jehlici (Needles/Rain), and Mraky (Clouds). It was standard issue, though I suspect the Mraky was either experimental or designated for special units.

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    Post by koalorka on Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:55 pm

    That is indeed interesting, but I think it was a non-standardized item, at least none of my Czech friends seem to be able to explain it.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:46 am

    And I've seen exactly one of these (Steve's), while I see the other two types every time I log into eBay. However many they made of the Clouds type, it was proportionally very small.

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    Post by koalorka on Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:40 am

    Got any links? Because I haven't seen any decent Czech stuff (beyond the plain needle jackets) in months.
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    Post by panzerwerk on Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:54 am

    That is indeed interesting, but I think it was a non-standardized item, at least none of my Czech friends seem to be able to explain it.

    Maybe , but it has all the stamps , so I do not think it was a one off , it may have been a smaller run at the end of the Cloud patterns life in the Czech Army .
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    Post by koalorka on Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:15 pm

    I managed to find a photo of an original "Mraky" set with hood and gloves:

    Some Czech camo - Page 3 2921281big

    So they all started out like that and were later modified with collars etc.
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    Post by vonstuck on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:03 pm

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    Post by koalorka on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:46 pm

    Very nice examples of the modern CR gear. This has to be the prettiest ERDL variant out there.
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:43 pm

    I agree! The vz85 is really nice too, but the more lime colors of the vz95 is even better IMHO.

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    Post by drmatz on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:28 pm

    nice info
    Both Steve's man you 2 have some awesome czech items. Raff i hope your czech source sends you all the stuff his promised, there's some very rare items there.

    im not even going to try, i have absolutely no clue regarding czech uniforms..
    but i did get this pretty cool reversible shirt

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