'59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

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    Bury_Dave
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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Bury_Dave on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:18 am

    Tyler Flint wrote:I recently got a Canadian DPM para smock Smile

    You look after it - they are rare enough now to be cherished. And to have photos posted up here too !! So get to it fella Laughing

    Sold mine when i left Calgary in '96. Not exactly practical mind; huge shiny brass central zipper and made of a material you could rip open by blowing on it. More of a barrack queen than a practical combat smock.

    loski
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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by loski on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:10 pm

    Bury_Dave wrote:Found my old smock after a bit of a root about in the attic - as well as a few other bits .......



    Makes me rather nostalgic .............
    Nice smock Dave I used to have one but traded it in the mid 90s bit of a dumb move in retrospect oh well no use crying over spilt milk

    loski
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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by loski on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:10 pm

    I do still have this late 80's early 90's para smock it has a bit of an oddity as the wings apear to be Rhodesian,It allso has a velcro patch sewn to the upper left sleeve and the pen pocket flap.






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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by nkomo on Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:29 pm

    I went ahead and pinned this thread for future reference. Some really great information in here.


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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Easy Gee on Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:47 pm

    Nice smocks fella's all fantastic pieces, I will get around to posting mine asap Wink

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Bury_Dave on Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:39 pm

    I've got copies of the original MoD Denison smock sizing and actual measurements charts. I need to get around to turning them into a document i can post up here for reference.

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by loski on Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:49 pm

    Hey dave that is a bloody good idea

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Easy Gee on Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:50 am

    Dave Here's one of mine I dug out of storage,I suspect this one might well have had another badge/patch above the right top pocket,enjoy!!


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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by L1A1 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:06 pm

    Bury_Dave wrote:Thought I'd share these smocks with you all.














    I have an olive green '63 pattern smock and another mint '77 pattern DPM Para smock plus some other bits I'll post as I get time.







    That 59 pattern looks absolutely mint !!!

    Lovely.

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by koalorka on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:17 pm

    L1A1 wrote:
    That 59 pattern looks absolutely mint !!!

    Lovely.

    Why thank you, I'm very fond of it. Very Happy

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Bury_Dave on Fri May 04, 2012 7:26 am

    Thought I'd post a piece here. A brief history of the Denison somck and its' demise ........ mostly of my own hand with a couple of references from elsewhere. All errors and omissions are mine own !!

    The Maroon beret and Denison were the identifying features of the Parachute Regiment from WW2 to the late 1980's and whilst the cherry beret is still worn by the Regt - and copied by many other nations now - the demise of the Denison smock remains something which most paratroopers would like see reversed by having it go back on general issue.

    The original 'Smocks, Parachutists' was a brown drill copy of the earliest German smocks and was of a step-in design. Basically a pair of coveralls with the legs removed at mid thigh. It had press stud closing at the cuffs and to close up the leg openings and a zipper and press stud opening down the front of the smock. It also had zippers down each side roughly where the hips are that permitted access to trouser pockets. It was used on the Bruneval Raid and the Tragino Viaduct raid. Early use taught the Brits what the Jerry already knew and had corrected - that access was limited and answering the call of nature meant removal of the smock which made the process take much longer and left you much more vulnerable if you got caught out midstream. Also, the original concept of wearing the smock over your webbing and having to remove the smock, unhook your webbing , re-don the smock and put your webbing back on before you could fight left paratroopers very vulnerable on the ground. A lesson learned the hard way by the Fallschirmjager in Crete, where so many were cut down on landing due to being unable to access weapons and ammo.

    So, due to the reasons above, a new design for a smock for parachute troops was required. It is not clear whether Major Denison designed the smock or created the camouflage pattern and its’ method of application. Major Denison worked for a camouflage unit. The early Denisons were made from a material which had its’ camouflage applied by hand onto a sand coloured material. Green and brown disruptor patterns were applied by brush. A very different process to the Germans more scientific and industrialised method of having printing rollers. The types of dyes used faded very quickly with use and washing. The basic design was a large, baggy, part-zippered chest opening, 4 pocketed smock design which had 2 internal chest pockets and a tail piece that could be fixed to one of three pairs of press studs at crotch level which prevented the smock catching the wind during the parachute descent. When not in place, the tail hung down and it is still not entirely clear if the tail was meant to be cut off after landing or not. It usually was or, on training, was press studded to one of the two gathering tabs at either hip. HM Govt’s clothing and equipment was only ‘modified’ on operations !!

    This smock saw its’ first combat in North Africa and then Sicily before being the most common type used in Normandy.

    Due to the expansion of the Airborne Forces – including gliderborne troops – an ‘economy’ smock was introduced in 1944. The colour base was darker – to reflect the coming emphasis on operations in North Western Europe. The tail was now able to be properly press studded out of the way to two female stud on the rear of the smock, the knit cuffs were dispensed with and replaced with button tabs part way up the sleeve. There was no official change of nomenclature for the smock.

    Post was stocks were used after the end of WW2 (some being issued into the 1970’s !), although some new smocks with slightly different colour tones were made in the early 1950’s. There are photos of the Suez debacle showing Paras wearing definitely non WW2 pattern smocks.

    The next significant change came with the introduction of the 1959 pattern. This was a more fitted garment which saw the reintroduction of knit cuffs and the official introduction of a full length zipper. This had been a common mod – particularly by officers and leading many to incorrectly think that any full length WW2 Denison must be an officers pattern. There was a private purchase smock worn by a very few senior officers. But this was of significantly different design and material to be of no consequence here. The colour scheme of the ’59 pattern changed and was of more vertical brush strokes on a khaki base material. There are numerous variations of camouflage colour scheme on the ’59 pattern smocks, including a sand coloured desert version which by dint of its’ difference to preceding smocks, implies it was by design and reflecting the Regiments involvement in campaigns like Aden and lots of Colonial postings like Egypt and Libya. Official documentation of this have yet to be uncovered. The final colour scheme came in 1972 with a mid khaki base colour and a more repeated pattern. This smock also differed in having ‘Smock, Camouflage’ on the label rather than the ‘Smock, Denison’ of the previous issues of the smock. It’s quality was noticeable lower than previous models.

    Despite the smock being replaced by the Disruptive Pattern Material (DPM) in the late 1970’s, the removal of the Denison smock can be traced back to 1961. The Executive Committee of the Army Council on 30th June, 1961 decided that the Denison smock “should not be retained”. The Parachute Regiment were contacted about this and 16 Para Brigade acknowledged this with the publication of a “Rules of Wearing Combat Dress” on 5th June 1962.

    Following this, in April 1968, the Quarter Master issued guidelines on the introduction of DPM clothing and the replacement of the Denison smock.

    Despite this, there is no sign of any consternation within the Parachute Regiment until April 1971 – that’s 10 years after the original statement to remove the Denison from issue !! The Para Regt contacted the Deputy Quarter Master General for clarification. The DQMG lays out the preceding 10 years of decision – inferring Para Regt acknowledgement – in its’ response and concluding with the paragraph.

    “So I am afraid the whole subject is a well documented fait accompli, and unless you can get your Colonel Commandant to generate enough heat to get the Army to reverse its’ decision, I would like to be invited to the wake wearing my ’44 pattern smock!”

    The fait accompli did not go unanswered, with a response that in 1965/1966 the Para Regt had, in fact, rejected a move to a DPM uniform, instead keeping the Denison smock and olive green trousers to use in both European and Tropical environments. However, the development of a new tropical DPM uniform was well underway with a planned introduction in 1973, and with it the Para Regt’s last chance to retain the Denison on cost saving grounds.

    As with all things Ministry of Defence projects, the development of the tropical uniform dragged on throughout the 1970’s and the 1973 planned introduction date. Stocks of existing Denisons ran low and the new Smocks camouflage, 19’72 pattern was ordered as an interim measure. However, trousers DPM were introduced to replace trousers, olive green and this resulted in instances of the Smock, camouflage being worn with trousers, DPM which caused great consternation amongst the powers that be and secured another release of trousers, olive green !

    There is no exact date for the withdrawal of the Denison and first issue of the Smock, Parachutists, DPM but most paras thing it was in 1977 and that by 1980 the Denison was gone forever. I recall seeing Denisons still being used by the RAF Regiment up to 1980 and a few TA Paras still in Denisons into the early 1980’s. Prince Charles, the Regiment’s Colonel-in-Chief, still wears his Denison when visiting the Regt – even with trousers Desert DPM !!

    There is also a photos of one of the Royal Marines Naval Party on the Falklands Islands in 1982 wearing a Denison. They are being lined up after surrendering to the Argentine special forces outside the Ambassador’s Residence. Perhaps the last time a Denison was worn in combat ??

    As a footnote, the Denison camouflage was a follow-on from that used on the SOE jumpsuits that were worn by agents parachuting into occupied Europe in WW2 and which was worn over their civilian clothing to protect it whilst dropping in and which was to be buried after landing. This brush-stroke camouflage was copied and adapted by the French for their Lizard pattern and this in turn was the inspiration for Tiger Stripe.


    Last edited by Bury_Dave on Fri May 04, 2012 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total

    Gulf91
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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Gulf91 on Fri May 04, 2012 7:38 am

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180868834489?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_949

    Check this one out,a bit suss but if shilling both have 0 feedback??

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Bury_Dave on Fri May 04, 2012 7:58 am

    Not bothered my self mucker. I don't want or need another Denison myself.

    Perhaps you should post this in the ebay or non reference section ? Otherwise we'll clogg up this reference thread with general chit chat and non reference clutter ? Wink

    Dave

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by fez on Tue May 08, 2012 12:43 pm

    loski wrote:I do still have this late 80's early 90's para smock it has a bit of an oddity as the wings apear to be Rhodesian,It allso has a velcro patch sewn to the upper left sleeve and the pen pocket flap.







    What are the wings on this smock ??

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by fez on Tue May 08, 2012 12:46 pm

    Sorry, just seen Rhodesian Embarassed

    koalorka
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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by koalorka on Fri May 18, 2012 9:23 am

    Very well written reference piece there Dave!

    And please remove photos when you are quoting a post with multiple images, it extends the page unnaturally and conceals the written content. 60% of this page is images that have been posted previously...

    onward288
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    Smock dating please

    Post by onward288 on Tue May 22, 2012 3:41 pm

    Having a disagreement about a smock i say its 90s a so called expert says it pre 77 can i get a witness to settle cheers lads


    British camo para smok, large size, worn by the 16th Independent Parachute Brigade, standard British army camo, with para wings above red square on right sleeve and corporal stripes below. The 16th brigade was disbanded in 1977.

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue May 22, 2012 4:09 pm

    Im no expert on the Parachute Regiment but isnt that the DZ patch for 1 Para??

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by bravo_2_zero on Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:13 pm









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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:44 am

    Hmmm,was supposed to be buying that smock myself,seller agreed a price,was checking the postage price then changed their mind saying they had decided to keep the smock-obviously not:twisted: Twisted Evil 

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by bravo_2_zero on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:19 pm

    Gulf91 wrote:Hmmm,was supposed to be buying that smock myself,seller agreed a price,was checking the postage price then changed their mind saying they had decided to keep the smock-obviously not:twisted: Twisted Evil 
    Same here to be fair , we agreed a price as soon as it was listed then he asked for payment then came back with other figures !! I was kind of feeling a little pee'd off to be frank as this was happening quiet a bit.

    I offered him a price and I said take it or leave it cos I'm not playing games and he emailed back saying ok. It did take about 4 days to sort out though and not a seller I'd love to deal with again. I think he was playing the interested in almost shill bidding.

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:24 pm

    Sounds that way indeed,maybe Im different but if I agree a price with somebody then the deal is done,no matter if somebody was to offer me double a deal is a deal.

    Oh well,win some lose some I guess,just hope you got it for a decent price and a nice smock it is.


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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by bravo_2_zero on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:29 pm

    I offered £75 , yes deal done then not
    I offered £100 , yes deal done then not
    I offered £115 and in the end I got it.


    Saying that did you see the 1959 smock buy now £25, some idiot bided £10-25 and it ended up £90 !!! I mean like £25 but now and £5 postage Mad then to bid up to £25 just seems crazy !!!

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:31 pm

    bravo_2_zero wrote:I offered £75 , yes deal done then not
    I offered £100 , yes deal done then not
    I offered £115 and in the end I got it.


    Saying that did you see the 1959 smock buy now £25, some idiot bided £10-25 and it ended up £90 !!! I mean like £25 but now and £5 postage Mad then to bid up to £25 just seems crazy !!!
    Bloody hell,£25 buy it now for a smock,cant say I did in all honesty.

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    Re: '59 & '77 pattern Para Smocks

    Post by bravo_2_zero on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:34 pm

    I was pressing buy now for ages and it just came back saying " member is buying this items please try again " or words to that effect , the member dropped a bid on of £25 !

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