DDPM UBACS Type B, what does that mean?

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    michelwijnand
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    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:08 pm

    So I've never really taken notice of an UBACS with this label, and it being different than the "normal" one until I coincidentally got this one, and I've gotten curious as to what it is.
    The contract date would make it later than the regular type, but other than tha I don't know anything about it, so any information is welcome.

    DDPM UBACS Type B, what does that mean? Dsc01110
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:23 pm

    I'm curious about this as well. I have pictures of a Type B in my PECOC references, so at the moment I'm thinking it was part of those trials. Certainly there were several variants trialed at that time. But I have no idea if the Type B is a part of that and would like to find out.

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    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:42 am

    If that would be so, it'd be my first PECOC item. But the fact that it has a normal contractcode on the label might say no to that, didn't PECEC items all have a specific trial tag without any contractcodes
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:37 pm

    The PECOC program was quite big and went through many different phases. The labels are sometimes distinct to a specific phase, sometimes consistent with other items, sometimes neither. Frustrating Wink So far I've seen most items with some sort of unusual, distinctive wording. Even the later ones that were finalizing the design and construction aspects.

    Here are some of the later PECOC item labels:

    DDPM UBACS Type B, what does that mean? S-l16012
    DDPM UBACS Type B, what does that mean? Img_1110
    DDPM UBACS Type B, what does that mean? Img_0910

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    Post by michelwijnand on Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:43 pm

    Oh wow, of all the tags I've saved pics of there were none with contractcodes, and that first one even has Pecoc on it and a code, my suspicions of a code meaning no Pecoc item is immediately thrown out the window Razz
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:11 am

    The ones with fairly normal labels are from very late development examples.  From what I can tell there was a phase of testing out patterns in very rough form.  The items were very crudely made and were designed simply to give some sense of what the pattern might look like scaled up to a uniform.

    From these initial test patterns they selected a subset in three "Tracks"; Desert, Woodland, All Terrain, and Hybrid.  There were 17 patterns in total.  From these 17 were produced functional uniforms with roughly what would become MTP features.  All had white/red tags with hand written information and used black velcro on both jackets and trousers.  Hand written in the backs of the neck area were the pattern's code (e.g. "Des 2")

    After this phase they produced a number of jackets, trousers, smocks, UBACS, some equipment pouches, etc. in 3 Color Desert, 2 Color Desert, and Woodland (normal DPM).  Maybe other patterns?  These uniforms were "field ready" construction that experimented with various features.  These tend to be referenced as "CD#" or "CD0#" on their labels

    I've seen an equipment piece that is labeled "CS-06-PECOC", no contract number.  I'm not sure what's up with that.  Especially because it also references CD1 and CD2.  There's also a Woodland shirt that has two labels, one for CD1 and another for CS06.  Based on this I am pretty sure that CS06 was the overall phase and CD numbered items fit under that.

    There was also a batch of uniforms made with "PR" code, as in "PECOC PR".  No contract number.  A label on a 3 Color Desert uniform bag shows a February 2009 date.

    Also apparently from this phase of development there were at least two sets of more finalized uniforms that had contract numbers in Woodland, 3 Color Desert, and 2 Color Desert.  The ones I know of have contract number DC2CESL.

    Another item set (jacket and trousers) in Woodland have CD3 and DC2CESL contract code on them, as well as a sub code of "B3". I've seen B2 on some other items, so it appears these are the sub variants within a wider spectrum of possible variants.

    CD6/CD06 appears in both Woodland and 2 Color Desert, but apparently not 3 Color Desert.  These items have DC4AESL or DC4CESL (might others, that's just what I have pics of).  Some equipment has DC4AESL contract numbers.

    I presume that the contract number sequences reflect approval dates, which means DC2CESL items were produced first, then DC4CESL produced latter.  This makes sense as it appears 4 Color Desert (DES 2) was dropped after the CD3 or PR phase.

    All very confusing Smile

    Steve


    Last edited by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:43 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:15 am

    Now that you have me looking at all this stuff in detail, I think I can safely say that the Type B UABCS is a PECOC item. It has the same contract number as other known PECOC trials items.

    So congratulations, you have a PECOC item Very Happy

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    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:50 am

    Further, I found some labels with dates:

    Looking at a few bits of information directly from labels, I'm seeing this:

    Start of PECOC 2007
    CS06 (CD 1 & 2) 2008
    CD2 2007 and 2008
    CD4 2008
    PR 2009

    From this meager information I'm tentatively concluding that "CS06" was the parent phase of a range of different "field ready" products covering a wide variety of items (jackets, trousers, windproof smocks, body armor covers, etc.). The items produced under CS06 were coded "CD#" or "CD0#", ranging from 1 to 6. I've only seen items in CD2, CD3, and CD6 having contract numbers. CD2 and CD3 used DC2CESL, CD6 used DC4AESL and DC4CESL. There could be other codes, those are just the ones I have examples of.

    I don't know how the PR fits into all of this, other than it could possibly be the finalization of what was done under CS06.

    Personally, I'm currently doing contract work with Dstl (the ones in charge of PECOC) and their coding is confusing as all get out. Even for me, and I'm doing the work Smile Which reminds me... I wanted to mine my resources and see if I can get some inside info on the program to clear this stuff up.

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    Post by michelwijnand on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:23 pm

    Wow, that's already a shitload of information.
    Doesn't CS mean Combat Soldier like it did with the CS95 trial stuff?
    And I downloaded some file that was disclosed which contained an official list of the camo patterns and their abbreviations and there's 19 of them, 20 counting "USMC digital".
    Here's a link to it:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/476768/PECOC_trials.pdf
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:45 am

    michelwijnand wrote:Wow, that's already a shitload of information.

    Heh... yeah, I finally got off my butt and looked through the mountain of info I have accumulated, but not yet compared.

    Doesn't CS mean Combat Soldier like it did with the CS95 trial stuff?

    Most likely.  But there's problems with that.  There are items produced in 2008 that have both CS06 and PECOC on their labels, yet there's lots of other items that have no mention of CS06 at all that have earlier dates.

    My working theory is that the program started out its life as CS06, possibly its own program or possibly a preliminary name.  Whatever CS06 might be it seems to be a part of PECOC.  The question is why are some later produced items (2008) referencing both CS06 and PECOC, while almost nothing earlier (2007) and nothing later (2009) does?

    And I downloaded some file that was disclosed which contained an official list of the camo patterns and their abbreviations and there's 19 of them, 20 counting "USMC digital".

    One of our members here obtained that document and posted it.  Incredible amount of information.  There's a pretty detailed thread where we picked apart the details.

    From what I can tell this is the phase that produced all the black velcro uniforms as well as the quick mockup items (in particular body armor covers).

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    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:13 am

    Argh! Now I've found yet another example in my collection with nomenclature that doesn't match anything else I've documented:

    Trousers, Combat
    Desert, DP
    PECOC Stage 4
    Wearer Trial
    Trouser Option 2
    DC2CESL

    I have no idea how this fits in with the other stuff, although the contract number is familiar.

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    Post by LeeKitchen1975 on Wed May 06, 2020 5:41 pm

    DDPM UBACS Type B, what does that mean? Fd497e10

    Don’t forget this one Steve 👍🏻
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    Post by CollectinSteve on Sun May 10, 2020 12:54 pm

    Ooo... that's a nice one you got there. Can you post some more pictures of it?

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    Post by LeeKitchen1975 on Sun May 10, 2020 3:00 pm

    Hi Steve, hope you’re well...

    The above pic is from a post I did back in Nov 14 (I think) copies the link below..

    https://iacmc.forumotion.com/t9899-spc-tasking-58-09-pecoc-stage-5-design-prototype-light-weight-jacket-smock-windproof-april-2010#71834

    Sponsored content

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