Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

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    michelwijnand
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:51 am

    Wtf, I thought I had seen all photobucket's f*ckups, and now this again...

    Guess I'll redo the posts missing photos then. Also fixing some typo's, like how the Marine corps loadout with M87 DPM said it was from 1978...

    First all the KM loadous, including an old one I hadn't posted.



    Dutch Marine Corps 1960's, New Guinea.

    M60 HBT uniform (USMC P44 cut)
    HBT cap (similar to USMC cap)
    BAR belt with suspenders (many argue these are Belgian, but I have some proof that seems to show these belts in very limited use with Dutch marines)
    US M42 first aid kit pouch
    Dutch canteen cover with US canteen
    US style leggings
    US 50's type boots

    Not shown but present in my collection and also usable for this loadout.
    US M36 belt
    2 Dutch made M1 carbine magazine pouches.






    Dutch Marine Corps uniform as used from 1974 - early 80's

    M74 summer uniform (consisting of khaki KM shirt, KL M58 pants, KL trouserbelt)
    QPO patch
    Corporal rank chevrons
    Early type Marine Corps beret
    Dutchmade US M36 style green pistolbelt
    Dutchmade USMC p41 style suspenders
    2 UZI magazine pouches (1 regular type and 1 center seam type)
    Dutchmade US M42 style green bandage pouch
    Plastic canteen in M52 pouch
    US M1910 pick mattock in Dutchmade carrier
    Dutchmade USMC p41 style backpack
    Black M66 boots






    Dutch Marine Corps, 1987 - early 90's

    M87 DPM summer uniform
    M87 windproof smock
    2 Marine 1st class rankslides
    M87 DPM cap
    Marine Corps beret
    Dutchmade US M36 style green pistolbelt
    Suspenders (with an added strap on the right shoulder, and an elastic on the other)
    Dutchmade US M42 style green bandage pouch with bandage
    Plastic canteen in early rubberized M52 pouch
    Dutchmade US style triple grenade pouch
    FN FAL type C bayonet
    C3 gasmask in plasticized bag
    Folding shovel in carrier
    Kidney pouches
    Poncho carrier with nylon poncho
    2 Packstraps as compression straps
    Backpack
    Black M66 boots






    Dutch Marine Corps, UNTAC 1992 - 1993 in Cambodia:

    US Woodland summer uniform with green shoulderloops
    UN Netherlands arm patch
    Korps Mariniers shoulder patch
    2 Sergeant rankslides
    Green armlet with Dutch flag and UN round patch
    Blue UN cap with late style patch
    RBR "305" body armor in DPM camo, this type was just issued for a short while
    US LC-2 pistolbelt
    LC-2 suspenders
    Dutchmade US M42 style green bandage pouch with bandage
    Plastic canteen in Marine Corps specific nylon pouch
    Plastic canteen in M52 pouch
    2 Nylon FN FAL-O triple magazine pouches
    Black M66 boots

    In the background and in hands:
    British green PLCE gasmaskbag (not worn in Cambodia but issue item, they were carried in Iraq a year prior)
    Blue UN beret
    2 Nylon FN-FAL double magazine pouches
    Late type pistolholster






    Dutch Marine Corps, Afghanistan, mid-00's

    3-Color Desert camo BDU uniform variation
    Schuberth 826 kevlar helmet
    3-Color Desert helmet cover
    Bolle goggles
    DPM medic ops-vest reconfigured for use with FN Mag magazines
    Late 90's Body armor
    ISAF patch
    Karabiner hook
    Tropical boots



    michelwijnand
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:00 pm

    Then my cold war era KL loadouts.


    Dutch army ca 1953 - early 60's.

    M53 Battledress uniform
    Khaki shirt and tie
    M53 (M1) helmet with fiber liner and helmetnet
    M52 belt
    M52 magazine pouches (Different than British p37 in that the front flap isn't pointy but straight)
    2 Suspenders (1 Dutch and 1 British p37 reissue)
    German WW2 style folding shovel in leather carrier
    Metal canteen in pouch
    K53 gasmask in bag
    Small pack with camo-strings (British p37 reissue)
    2 L-straps (British p37 reissue)
    British p37 style anklets
    Low boots.

    In the background:
    Leather jerkin
    Mesh scarf
    Another M53 battledress tunic that is actually part of the loadout, but is too small for the mannequin.
    It has patches for Dutch army 4th division, sergeant rank chevrons, and a rampant lion.
    Around 1963 shoulder emblems (not visible in the photo) were moved to the collar.
    Such battledresses were used alongside the M58 uniforms for quite a while.






    Dutch Marechaussee (MP) ca 1953 - early 60's

    M53 Battledress uniform with Marechaussee shoulder buttons
    2 Marechaussee shoulder emblems
    Rampant lion patch
    2 Marechaussee 1st class chevrons
    2 Marechaussee shoulderstrip patches
    1St "armycorps troops" patch
    White Aiguillettes cord
    Khaki shirt and tie
    MP armband
    M53 (M1) helmet fiber liner
    White British p37 style belt
    White British p37 style suspender
    White British p37 style brace attachment
    White British style holster (Browning Hi-power?)
    Pistol lanyard (now replaced with a blue one)
    White British p37 style anklets
    Low boots






    Dutch army ca 1969 - 1976. (since the earliest plastic canteen I have is dated 69, and the K gasmask was supposed to
    be replaced in 76, though I'm not sure how long the wearout period was)

    M58 summer uniform
    M58 winter uniform
    Private rankslides
    M53 (M1) helmet with soldiermade camo (fiber liner shell)
    Early type M52 belt
    2 Early type M52 suspenders
    2 p37 style basic pouches (1 WW2 British pouch with wrongly repaired closure, 1 possibly Dutch copy of a p37 pouch)
    US M43 folding shovel in Dutch carrier
    Plastic canteen in pouch
    K53 gasmask in pouch
    M52 small pack
    2 early type M52 L-straps
    M66 boots

    Not visible/shown but present:
    M58 hood
    M58 cap
    2 early type M52 brace attachments
    Padded jacketliner
    Long and short underwear






    Dutch army UNIFIL, early 80's.

    M78 summer uniform
    UN Netherlands sleeve patch
    UN blue shouldercord
    Khaki armlet with UN patch
    Trouserbelt
    Private rankslides
    UN blue beret with badge
    M52 belt
    2 M52 suspenders (1 late type)
    2 KMarns seperated FAL magazine pouches modified onto British p37 brace attachments
    Custommade magazine/multipurpose pouch
    Canteen in early type rubberized pouch
    M66 boots






    Dutch army 1980's - early 90's.

    M78 winter uniform
    Corporal rankslides
    M53 (M1) helmet with soldiermade camo (plastic liner shell)
    Late type M53 belt
    2 Late type M53 suspenders
    2 Late type M53 brace attachments
    Trifold shovel in carrier
    Plastic canteen in late type rubberized pouch
    C3 gasmask in early pouch
    Pistol holster
    Pistol lanyard
    Late type rubberized small pack
    Late type M52 L-straps
    M66 boots

    Not visible/shown but present:
    M78 summer uniform
    M58 cap
    M58 winter cap
    Padded undersuit
    Long and short underwear






    abefroman
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:19 pm

    Thank you! These are excellent resources.

    Two questions:

    1. What evidence do you have the BAR belt was used by the Dutch in Indonesia?
    2. Do you have any pictures of the KM wearing their webbing in Cambodia?

    michelwijnand
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:21 pm

    Then my post-1991 KL loadouts.

    Dutch army early UNPROFOR loadout (signal and/or transport corps), early 1990's.

    M90 DPM summer uniform
    ABA body armor in dark DPM
    Blue UN Schuberth 826 kevlar helmet (older model before Dutch M95 standard)
    DPM armlet with UN patch
    DPM armlet with Netherlands patch
    M90 boots (not shown, my actual M90 boots are stuck on a mannequin)






    Dutch army ca 1996 - mid-2000's.

    M90 DPM summer uniform
    M90 DPM bilaminaat parka
    M95 type Schuberth 826 kevlar helmet with DPM cover
    DPM M93 vest
    C7 DPM magazine pouches (2X)
    Avon FM12 gasmask in DPM bag
    Trifold shovel in DPM pouch
    Canteen in DPM pouch
    M90 boots






    Dutch army, Luchtmobiele Brigade (Air Assault) jungle loadout, late 1990's - mid 2000's.

    M90 cut Jungle camo uniform and boonie hat
    DPM tactical vest
    Tropical boots (that don't fit me), another model than the ones on the Marine Corps loadout in he previous post






    Dutch army Afghan War loadout, early-mid 2000's.

    M90 cut 3-color desert camo summer uniform and boonie hat
    DPM body armor cover (now replaced with a desert camo cover)
    DPM chestrig
    DPM legholster
    40mm Grenade bandoleer
    3-Color desert camo camelbak
    Tactical riflesling
    3-Color desert camo gasmaskbag (now removed)
    Desert boots






    Dutch army SFIR-5 loadout, Garde Jagers, 11 aaslt (Luchtmobiele Brigade, Air Assault), 2005.

    3-Color desert camo parka and trilaminaat pants
    Corporal rankslides
    Darkgreen beret with Garde Jagers insignia
    SFIR armpatch
    DPM body armor "modified" cover
    Desert camo M93 vest
    2 Desert camo UZI magazine pouches
    NBC cup canteen with desert camo pouch
    Desert camo maintenance kit pouch
    Desert boots

    In the background some more gear that wasn't worn in the field, but part of the vest complex.

    Desert camo gasmask bag
    Black trifold shovel in desert camo pouch
    Desert camo Rotota cargo bag

    The boots are not correct, but my actual Dutch army desert boots are stuck on a mannequin, so I grabbed some available boots that were standing in my depot.






    Dutch army snow camo loadout, mid-late 2000's

    DPM trilaminaat parka and trousers
    Snow-camo oversuit
    DPM modular tactical vest with pouch set (early model with camo MOLLE strips)
    Wool hat
    Wool gloves
    Random black boots I had on hand at the time





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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:27 pm

    And lastly a KCT and a KLu loadout.


    Dutch Airforce (KLu) ground troops, 1978 - early 80's.

    M78 grey-green summer and winter uniforms
    M53 (M1) helmet with soldiermade camo (grey plastic liner shell)
    Grey M52 belt
    2 Grey M52 suspenders
    2 Grey UZI magazine pouches
    Plastic canteen in grey M52 pouch
    C3 gasmask bag
    Grey M52 small pack
    Grey L-straps (1 M52, 1 British p37)
    Black M66 boots
    Grey cap
    Grey-green cap
    Grey mittens






    Dutch KCT Afghan War uniform, late 2000's - early 2010's (not exactly sure about the years on this one)

    3-Color Desert camo trial pattern jacket
    3-Color Desert US ACU pants
    NLD cap
    Revision Sawfly glasses and pouch
    DPM Arktis chestrig
    DPM modular body armor
    Subdued ISAF patch
    3-Color Desert Camelbak
    Soldiermade DPM belt
    Woodland camo Eagle Industried legholster
    40mm bandoleer
    Trezeta Top Evo boots




    michelwijnand
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:32 pm

    And then for your questions.

    1. Not a whole lot, word of mouth from a veteran saying he had seen at least 2 types of BAR belts.
    Then I saw a photo of Marines at Curacao apparently wearing such a BAR belt. I'm assuming the other type he meant was the US type.

    2. Do you mean the webbing as on the 80's loadout? Because very few parts of that webbing was used in Cambodia. Instead they used a mixture
    of US ALICE webbing and either US ALICE or Dutch made pouches. Most likely because nylon works bettre in tropical areas, and doesn't get
    destroyed by it.
    I do have photos of the US/Dutch mix stuff in use if that's what you mean?

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:00 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:And then for your questions.

    1. Not a whole lot, word of mouth from a veteran saying he had seen at least 2 types of BAR belts.
      Then I saw a photo of Marines at Curacao apparently wearing such a BAR belt. I'm assuming the other type he meant was the US type.

    2. Do you mean the webbing as on the 80's loadout? Because very few parts of that webbing was used in Cambodia. Instead they used a mixture
      of US ALICE webbing and either US ALICE or Dutch made pouches. Most likely because nylon works bettre in tropical areas, and doesn't get
      destroyed by it.
      I do have photos of the US/Dutch mix stuff in use if that's what you mean?

    Yes, those pics would be great.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:02 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:And then for your questions.

    1. Not a whole lot, word of mouth from a veteran saying he had seen at least 2 types of BAR belts.
      Then I saw a photo of Marines at Curacao apparently wearing such a BAR belt. I'm assuming the other type he meant was the US type.

    2. Do you mean the webbing as on the 80's loadout? Because very few parts of that webbing was used in Cambodia. Instead they used a mixture
      of US ALICE webbing and either US ALICE or Dutch made pouches. Most likely because nylon works bettre in tropical areas, and doesn't get
      destroyed by it.
      I do have photos of the US/Dutch mix stuff in use if that's what you mean?

    In fact, any pictures you have of Dutch web gear in action would be awesome (especially during overseas deployment). Pics like that are rarely seen.

    michelwijnand
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:37 pm

    Ok sure, here's first 2 photos with BAR belts, the first one is the Curacao photo I mentioned before, and looking at the height of the
    buckle the one soldier does seem to have a BAT belt like this.
    The other is most likely wearing a US one.






    And here's a load of Cambodia pics with a mix of US LC-1/2 and Dutch webbing pieces.
    There's also a pic with the blue helmet on the vehicle, it's a British Mk6 helmet with a specialmade cover. Another collector
    here has such a cover, it's the same cut as British ones, but completely unmarked.



















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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:40 pm

    And here's marines in Iraq with just about the same gear, but also wearing gasmask bags.







    I don't know of any other photos of foreign missions before this though. I don't even know of any missions they were sent on during the cold war at all

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:05 pm

    Outstanding!! Thanks so much. These pictures are difficult to find. The only other mission I can think of would be UNIFIL Lebanon 1982-83.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:23 pm

    Nah that was a KL only affair, no KM forces took part in that

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:47 am

    michelwijnand wrote:Ok sure, here's first 2 photos with BAR belts, the first one is the Curacao photo I mentioned before, and looking at the height of the buckle the one soldier does seem to have a BAR belt like this.
    The other is most likely wearing a US one.





    Interesting, I guess that "Belgian" model is the only one that had the high buckle. I think the Portuguese may have had one as well? I'm sure Wolverine should have some input on this.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Gulf91 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:07 pm

    michelwijnand wrote:Ok sure, here's first 2 photos with BAR belts, the first one is the Curacao photo I mentioned before, and looking at the height of the
    buckle the one soldier does seem to have a BAT belt like this.
    The other is most likely wearing a US one.






    And here's a load of Cambodia pics with a mix of US LC-1/2 and Dutch webbing pieces.
    There's also a pic with the blue helmet on the vehicle, it's a British Mk6 helmet with a specialmade cover. Another collector
    here has such a cover, it's the same cut as British ones, but completely unmarked.



















    Any idea what the Flak Vests are? They look similar to US PASGT ones but sure they arent as cammo pattern looks different,higher collars etc?

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:13 pm

    Yeah I have one of these vests, US made by ABA. I've also seen a collarless version once, though it might have been a very well-done removal.





    And yes I think I've seen a BAR belt with a high buckle like this, though I think it was something South American IIRC. The only Portuguese type
    I know is a copy of the US one, for use with paratroopers.

    I really think these Belgian type ones here could be Dutchmade, although everyone always links them with the Belgian army.
    The Belgians had them for sure, but I've seen many with materials that just seem way more Dutch than Belgian to me, both fabric and hardware.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Gulf91 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:24 pm

    Superb,was hoping it was one of them as am 99.9% sure I have one of these somewhere under tons of crap that has actually stopped rounds.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:46 pm

    Gulf91 wrote:Superb,was hoping it was one of them as am 99.9% sure I have one of these somewhere under tons of crap that has actually stopped rounds.

    Looking to sell it? Laughing

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Gulf91 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:52 pm

    abefroman wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:Superb,was hoping it was one of them as am 99.9% sure I have one of these somewhere under tons of crap that has actually stopped rounds.

    Looking to sell it? Laughing

    Need to find it first,heeehh.
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Wolverine on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:11 pm

    Regarding the BAR belts, a few thoughts:

    It is possible that different versions observed by former marines could have been all US-made. The details of their construction changed over more than 30 years, so it is possible that various US examples found their way to the Dutch marines, along with plenty of other US equipment.

    The European-made BAR belts that we are considering here, which show up in Belgian photographs, all have integral shoulder braces, as far as I have seen. This is something to watch for in old photos of Dutch marines - so far, I haven't noticed any with the braces.

    I have noticed a range of colours and styles for these belts, from khaki shades similar to other Belgian webbing of the 1950s to very dark olive, similar to typical Dutch M52. I have wondered one thing - if these were manufactured in Belgium, for Belgian forces, why add eyelets along the bottom? There was no commonly used Belgian equipment during the time period that used M1910 hooks. On the other hand, the Dutch marines (and army of course) had lots of equipment with M1910 hooks.

    Still, one would have thought that if these were made in Dutch factories for Dutch forces, that they should turn up with some frequency in photos. Yet they seem only to turn up clearly in Belgian photos.

    Regardless of who they were made for, where were they made? I don't know the answer, but it strange that I have never seen one of these belts with any markings (aside from faked US markings). I think that nearly 80 per cent or more of Belgian webbing that I have handled from the 1950s-60s has maker's marks of some kind. The same for Dutch webbing, although sometimes they are harder to read because of the darker shade of the canvas. So why no markings?

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by michelwijnand on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:27 pm

    To further add to the Dutch connection, the abscence of markings is pretty normal on KM gear. And also, the whole time the BAR was issued in the KM (as the BAG) falls wthin the time the narrow USMC type suspenders were used, and almost all of the BAR belts seem to have narrow integrated suspenders.
    Them not showing up in many photos might also point to marines, as the KL used basic pouches for carrying all sorts of mags already, and old KM photos are not really that easy to come by.
    Similarly, I have quite a few photos of marines with BAR's (shooting range, exercise etc.) and pretty much none have an actual BAR belt, just the simple pistolbelt with a bandage pouch.

    I'll take a look at mine tomorrow, I think it may have the Dutch type Knip Hier LTD snaps.
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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Wolverine on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:56 pm

    I will have to look more closely at mine as well.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Gulf91 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am

    Gulf91 wrote:
    abefroman wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:Superb,was hoping it was one of them as am 99.9% sure I have one of these somewhere under tons of crap that has actually stopped rounds.

    Looking to sell it? Laughing

    Need to find it first,heeehh.

    Found it,dated 1990,at least 2 bullet strikes with 2 of the squashed,impacted slugs still present in the vest.

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by abefroman on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:18 pm

    Gulf91 wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:
    abefroman wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:Superb,was hoping it was one of them as am 99.9% sure I have one of these somewhere under tons of crap that has actually stopped rounds.

    Looking to sell it? Laughing

    Need to find it first,heeehh.

    Found it,dated 1990,at least 2 bullet strikes with 2 of the squashed,impacted slugs still present in the vest.

    Awesome! looking to sell it?

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    Re: Dutch army loadout displays (cold war era)

    Post by Gulf91 on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:30 pm

    abefroman wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:
    abefroman wrote:
    Gulf91 wrote:Superb,was hoping it was one of them as am 99.9% sure I have one of these somewhere under tons of crap that has actually stopped rounds.

    Looking to sell it? Laughing

    Need to find it first,heeehh.

    Found it,dated 1990,at least 2 bullet strikes with 2 of the squashed,impacted slugs still present in the vest.

    Awesome! looking to sell it?

    Its no use to me so could probably go I guess.

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