Estonian stuff

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    koalorka
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by koalorka on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:34 pm

    I've recently come across this strange winter uniform and I'm not really sure if it's a civilian aftermarket product. The winter uniforms presented above are significantly different (the arrangement of pockets and the purple satin liner don't seem military oriented). Any ideas?





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    CollectinSteve
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:13 pm

    I'm guessing it's after market using surplus cloth left over from genuine contract runs. I've only ever seen pictures of soldiers using the ones I have, which are more complex than yours and consistent with designs going back to the 1990s.

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by koalorka on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:19 pm

    That's what I suspected. Apparently picked-up locally in the late 1990s.
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by vonstuck on Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:47 pm

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:37 pm

    Great pictures Gilles! There are a lot of very old ones (1992/93) that are particularly interesting. Also a rare photo of Danish m/84 in use.

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by FobanX on Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:17 am

    Here are my estonian early camo uniform collection.


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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:53 pm

    Nice examples! The middle one is not easy to find. The soldiers must have hated wearing it!

    Your first one appears to be a commercial version made out of original cloth. Here is a picture of the genuine type:



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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by Geardardo on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:57 am

    Steve you're wrong,soldiers hate a zip'd uniform and call that crap(duck hunter)
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    ripcord
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:06 pm

    My 2 cents..



     








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    mylle
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by mylle on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:59 pm

    Looks like you couldn't resist.... Very Happy Cool piece.
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:40 pm

    Now that is interesting! I've never seen one in that coloration before. Any signs that it's a fade/wash problem? Inside pockets might help with that to some extent.

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:44 pm

    Hey Steve,

    No inside pockets , definitely worn and washed a few times, but minimal to no  wear and tear .   Overall pretty much in excellent conditions and colors, all cotton, & very well made.

    I thought it may have been in the same, or  similar pattern  to the patched piece  you have posted above; certainly the same cut.  
     No labels anywhere, but that does not surprise me.  I have at least one  green amoeba  set that is not labeled.

    I was told it was an early '90 Desert ( test ) pattern worn on one of the African missions.  


    Wish I had the pants....






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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:10 am

    Up until now I've only found two variants in this cut. The picture I posted before is one type, the other is in the standard Estonian colors (like FobanX's third uniform). However, I've had several of these and noticed that they fade/wash to create some distinctly different colorations. Though I've never seen anything even remotely as crazy as what you have!

    The trousers are *VERY* hard to find. The jacket I have above is one of three that I've had. I've also had at least three of the traditional green type. I've only managed to find one trouser for each.

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:25 pm

    koalorka wrote:I've recently come across this strange winter uniform and I'm not really sure if it's a civilian aftermarket product. The winter uniforms presented above are significantly different (the arrangement of pockets and the purple satin liner don't seem military oriented). Any ideas?






    I have come across a legit issue  foul weather set that is similar to the one posted by koalorka  .  The  same set can be found in the link Gilles provided above  ( 2nd page, 6th photo ) .



     

     

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:37 pm


    This is the link I mentioned ( 2nd page, 6th photo )

    BTW, patch on left shoulder is most likely not correct..






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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:45 am

    Yup, that's the standard wet/cold weather kit made in 2006 (not sure if it was made earlier).  After that time they were phased out as the digital type was phased in.  The digital type is nearly identical to this one.  Here's a not very good picture of one:





    The set that koalorka posted above is either private purchase or civilian, as far as I know.

    I do have a set coming to me that is identical to Swedish m/90 cut, including the gaiters on the trousers.  When it arrives I'll certainly post pics!

    Steve


    Last edited by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:00 am

    Love that parka.  Basically identical to the non digital parka in cut.  There is a  photo of one in use in Gilles' link ( first page ,last photo ).

    Steve, I used the same description when trying to describe this set to a friend.  It is definitely cut close to the great M90..
    This has to be my favorite Estonia piece in my collection ( as of now )...  Would love to see yours when it arrives..

    I believe this set was used in Kosovo.

     



     


    Trident has a post with  a  fuzzy photo of what seems to be  this smock .




    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Estonian-camouflage-windproof-smock-metric-size-58-/120885991927?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


    Santa was good to me this year rendeer santa rendeer


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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by mylle on Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:40 pm

    I like your new Estonian stuff very much Sal,good catch. Very Happy
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:20 pm

    I have gone over some photos and information and I think I've finally got a handle on the uniform that koalorka and Rip posted.  It was used in Bosnia by the Estguard-2 rotation in 2006.  This was apparently some sort of mission only uniform that only they used for their one deployment.  Which means the uniform is official in that sense, but not standard issue in another sense.  Which explains the commercial looking labels and tags.

    I don't know why this unit needed it's own, special uniform.  2006 was when they started to transition to digital so perhaps they didn't have sufficient stocks of either uniform and so they contracted for a one-time run of uniforms to fix the problem? There were only roughly 30 soldiers sent with Estguard-2 so we're not talking about a lot of uniforms.

    http://www.kmin.ee/en/1197

    My guess is the uniform that's on its way to me is of this type, not a strict Swedish copy as I thought it would be.

    Steve

    P.S.  Sal, that is the correct unit badge on the right arm, though I don't have enough info to say that is what they wore while in Bosnia.
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:41 pm

    A bit more evidence that the uniform is inherently commercial.  Note that the used ones have velcro added to both arms above both breast pockets, the new ones with tags do not.  But more importantly... there is a rank epaulette on the used ones, not on the new ones. To me this looks like the military bought a bunch of uniforms and had tailors sew on the bits of velcro and epaulette.

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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:55 pm

    Wow,

    I am now more confused than ever confused

    One thing we can deduce though, is that the foul weather set was worn officially on at least one rotation. We have photo evidence from Gille's link that it was .

    I would guess an SFOR patch would be correct on the right shoulder, with an Estonian flag patch on the left.

    I am curious to see the tags of the woodland digital set you have posted if you still have access to it. That is one cool set; would love to see more of it if possible.


    Thanks for your research and always welcome input, looking forward to more ....


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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:58 pm

    ripcord wrote:Wow,

    I am now more confused than ever confused

    One thing we  can  deduce  though, is that the foul weather set was worn officially  on at least  one rotation.   We have photo evidence from Gille's  link  that it was .

    I think we're getting two uniforms confused. There is the 2006 type that later served as the basis for the digital type. That's official kit and saw widespread use. Gilles' link (page 2, 6th photo) shows this type.

    The other one that is similar to Swedish m90. I have not seen a picture of it in use, but I have two Estonian sources that say it was used for Estguard-2 (2006) and you have a really sweet set in used condition that likely went on deployment. But other pieces are brand new, with commercial tags, and lacking velcro and chest rank epaulette. Which is why I suspect that kitting out the rotation came up short and so they grabbed a bunch of commercial stuff instead. It's not uncommon for such small rotations to go to "off the shelf" solutions instead of spending big bucks to get new official kit.

    I would guess  an SFOR patch would be correct on the right shoulder, with an Estonian flag patch on the left.

    I think they had some special patches for that rotation. The Estguard was part of the Eurocorps force and so they have a round badge with blue background and gold stars. The badge below it is a square badge that is split into white and blue triangles with a narrow diamond bisecting it.

    I am curious to see the tags of the woodland digital set you have posted if you still have access to it.   That is one cool set;  would love to see more of it if possible.

    Yup, I have them in a box. As far as I know there's only one type of digital cold/wet weather uniform, but there's at least 3 Amoeba types that saw widespread use. And then there's Goretex sets in both Amoeba and digital plus a vinyl set in Amoeba. I have all of these in my collection.

    Steve
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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:10 pm

    BTW, more modern bits of official Estonian kit have white labels with the triple lions on them, similar to seen on this unit badge:



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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by ripcord on Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:59 pm

    Hey Steve,

    Here are a couple of photos, hastily photographed indoors, of the patches you mentioned and a couple of Para patches that incorporate the 3 lions motif.

    I do have  2010  issue desert trousers with  the 3 lions logo in the  label, and that fantastic winter hat I got from you earlier this year has a very similar, but strangely larger sized label.

     


    Thanks for the info on the " M90" type uniform.   Basically confirms what info I had on it.     Almost tempted to further investigate the "windproof " being offered by Trident, but not likely.

    The other beast ( with the commercial looking tags ) has definitely been used as well, but maybe once or twice at best.  It is near new , but not brand new.
    Looks pretty well close  to the one on the G post, except for the lack of national flag patch above the sleeve pocket, but does have  a rank tab on the chest.

      I take  long walks every day no matter the weather; the parka is perfect over a t shirt for the weather we are having now, so whatever it may be , it is  very useful  Sleep



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    Re: Estonian stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:24 am

    OK, my Estguard-2 uniform arrived (along with other goodies) and here's some more info. Mine is different than koalorka's in the following ways:

    1. Liner along sides is OD cotton cloth vs. shiny maroon polyester
    2. White tag in the same place, but company name is AS MIKREL vs. WALKO
    3. Embroidered EESTI KAITSEVÄGI over left breast vs. no embroidery
    4. (Possible) external pen holder on arm pocket vs. none
    5. Chest rank vs. no chest rank

    Compared to Rip's jacket mine has no velcro at all. No signs of it. Rip, feel around on the inside left breast and see if you can feel the embroidery. It might be under the velcro or it might not be present.

    This further reinforces and refines my previous position on the sets. The one by WALKO is likely purely commercial, though possibly worn unofficially. The AS MIRKEL type appears to have been purpose made for military use. One clear example of this is the embroidery being done before construction, not after.

    As it so happens I now have three other uniform bits made by WALKO using the same black and white tag. I have a copy of the first uniform, but in a much thinner (cheaper) cloth with exposed stitching for the pocket velcro (cheaper). I also have a very early (as in the oldest I think I've ever seen) winter jacket with snaps. It certainly appears to have been used by a soldier.

    Based on this I'd say that WALKO produced items for commercial or private purchase in the mid to late 1990s. The Estguard-2 type made by them might have served as the basis for the military issued type, or vice versa.

    Steve

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