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    Greek Army webbing

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    gus
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    Post by gus Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:39 am

    Wolverine wrote:It is meant to fit the British style belt?
    Yes! That was for the british belt..
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    Post by gus Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:47 am

    Wolverine wrote:
    gus wrote:
    michelwijnand wrote:Gus, I don't remember where I've found all of them, some probably came from a facebook page about camouflage uniforms, others may have come from a Greek contact, not sure.
    And thanks for mentioning the difference between the M66 and M71 belts, Wolverine and I were talking about what belt would be for that set before, and now we have that definite way of ID-ing the Greek made version at least.
    And when I saw the verticl camo for the first time I even thought it was something Portoguese until I read the description the owner of the uniform typed with it, the overall look with gear is very similar too.
    And that vertical weave belt, is it nylon? Looks like it could be from the late type M71 gear which was fully nylon made.

    i remember in my military service some soldiers had this greek belt also..a M71 with british buckle...it was pretty common back in the late 80sGreek Army webbing - Page 4 S-l50010

    How about a vertical weave nylon belt with British-type buckle? How many different variants are out there?
    (The cotton one above looks very similar also to a Belgian belt...)
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 P1000119
    I think the one here in my post is a belgian indeed as i found the pic it in the internet but the greeks had identical greek belts with british buckle like the nylon one in your pic but in webbing...the M71 suspenders and butt packs as well had many minor subvariations in buckles styles and there was one type with webb body and nylon straps possibly the very last webbing M71 suspender production style! That minor differences didn't chance the pattern or the terminology..they were all M71s in the armys eyes...
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    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Empty M71/83 suspenders nylon straps Vs web straps

    Post by gus Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:44 am

    The nylon weave its not dense & you can see through...!!!
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    Post by gus Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:48 am

    gus wrote:
    Wolverine wrote:
    gus wrote:
    michelwijnand wrote:Gus, I don't remember where I've found all of them, some probably came from a facebook page about camouflage uniforms, others may have come from a Greek contact, not sure.
    And thanks for mentioning the difference between the M66 and M71 belts, Wolverine and I were talking about what belt would be for that set before, and now we have that definite way of ID-ing the Greek made version at least.
    And when I saw the verticl camo for the first time I even thought it was something Portoguese until I read the description the owner of the uniform typed with it, the overall look with gear is very similar too.
    And that vertical weave belt, is it nylon? Looks like it could be from the late type M71 gear which was fully nylon made.

    i remember in my military service some soldiers had this greek belt also..a M71 with british buckle...it was pretty common back in the late 80sGreek Army webbing - Page 4 S-l50010

    How about a vertical weave nylon belt with British-type buckle? How many different variants are out there?
    (The cotton one above looks very similar also to a Belgian belt...)
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 P1000119
    I think the one here in my post is a belgian indeed as i found the pic it in the internet but the greeks had identical greek belts with british buckle like the nylon one in your pic but in webbing...the M71 suspenders and butt packs as well had many minor subvariations in buckles styles and there was one type with webb body and nylon straps possibly the very last webbing M71 suspender production style! That minor differences didn't chance the pattern or the terminology..they were all M71s in the armys eyes...
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2019
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2020Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2019
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2020
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    Post by Wolverine Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:29 pm

    Indeed, these variations make the collecting more interesting.

    Was there any particular scheme in the Greek forces as far as who was equipped with the British-type webbing and who was equipped with the US-type webbing? It seems that both types were copied for Greek use.
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    Post by gus Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:27 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Indeed, these variations make the collecting more interesting.

    Was there any particular scheme in the Greek forces as far as who was equipped with the British-type webbing and who was equipped with the US-type webbing? It seems that both types were copied for Greek use.

    hmmm...Wolverine is a bit complicated story..many different foreign & local patterns but ill try to make it simple for you...by 1941 until 1947 the greek royal army used exclusively british & commonwealth P37 gear indian south african canadian etc...by 1954 we have a new greek local copy of the british P37 so ill call that P37 copy the M54 though there is no official designation for it...In the meantime by 1947 we have original american WWII gear comming also...10 pocket garand belts..M1910 haversacks US canteens & covers mussete bags etc...also produced an endless series of different postwar metalic greek local canteens and carriers-so you can see units with mixed equipments all the way by 1947 until the 70s....they didnt care abt patterns in the army..they just wanted every soldier to be well equiped...by early 50s around 1951 we have greek copies of all the american WWII gear as well simultaneously with the production of the greek copies of the british P37 gear...!!!so lots of webbing right there..!!!..that paralel production & use continued well in to the 60s and early to late 70s so you can imagine the confusion...new made post WWII M45\51 korean war era original US gear continued to be comming in greece in huge quantities the 50s & the 60s as military aid Marshal plan mainly M45 cargo packs & M45 suspenders..thats why the greeks didnt make copies of cargos & suspenders!quantities were of originals were huge but they didnt sent greece the top combat packs!!!...so greeks were forced to made local copies of the tops...now by 1960 the style of the greek P37 haversack chanced slighly so ill call that haversack the P60-the colour of the P37 gear now also became a more dark OD khaki than before as the older batches of the 1954 were a pure british light tan khaki...by 1966 we have something modern for the day..!!! the new SF paratroopers commandos & marines greek designed M66 automatic rifles 8 pouches system for the then new FN FAL & the greek copy of the US M45 top combat pack & US jungle 1st aid pouch copies along with original unaltered US M45 suspenders but it took years to replace the old US WWII gear in SF & marines units...in 1973-74 you can still see the marines and paras in army parades using WWII US gear or local copies of it and M1 Garands M3 grease guns BAR MGs etc as a main armament...finaly by 1975 you can only see FN FALs & the M66 system in universal use & the old weapons & gear phased out or given to the infantry...now on your question about witch unit used what?...generaly there was a habit by 1947 until the mid 70s that the american style gear & uniforms to be used mainly by special forces as a sign of elite status so the rest of the army used mainly the british style staff but still some times you see whole big infantry units with american gear well into the 70s so the confusion continued...this elite status remained in the 70s & the plain infantry never received the paras M66 sophisticated system & never received the SF camo lizard uniforms until very late in 1994!!!the older years the cammo & the green beret was only for the SF as an elite status!!!...but in 1971 we have the new infantry M71 system an almost faithfull copy of the US Nam M1956-main differences from the original US were the plain snaps instead of silent tabs on the ammo pouches and the option to hang the butt pack high up on the back by US clips & Drings a usefull element missing from the original M56 gear...some belts were produced having US Nam style ball buckles & some others the old P37 buckles & there was also a small run of nam style Davis buckles belts...obviously they didnt care that much about buckles standarisation in the army...also the greeks made a clever step...a wide range of M71 special greek designed pouches in the US M56 style with ALICE clips for all the old rifles still in service specificaly the tompson & M3 pouches-BAR & FALO pouches & small double M1 garand pouches...greeks also remanufactured in army factories huge older stocks of korean war era M45 cargo packs & M45 combat suspenders in a style more close to the M71 Vietnam style and given to the infantry troops to suplement the existing stock of greek made M71s...they function exactly like M71 pack & suspenders so with this idea they transformed something old & useless into something new & usefull...greece had & still has a huge army so it took years to replace the huge quantities of the british style gear so you can still see regular army units with the british P37 copies as late as 1985-86...in about 1983 the M71 started produced in a more US nam Nylon M67 style but still in webbing not in nylon like the original US...in around 1986-87 the paras & marines M66 system was allready an old system out of production by around 1973-74...they were all destroyed & torn off in trainig & manouvers so they didnt have enough replacement M66s in stock anymore to give to the new recruits paras so the special forces by necessity started to use new stocks of the the all army M71/M83 just as the rest of the army...you can see the very last few M66s still in service last time around 1995 and thats the end of the M66 system...other branches of service and the navy used every crazy things and gears you can imagine & even localy made M61 USMC style belts as they are using M14 rifles...this study of course is not complete but just for your better understanding of what exactly parts of equipments youv got in hands...in my military service i remember i used the all army M71 & some times the M71\83 depending on the unit i was dispatched in at the given time...it was a good system for those years...
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    Post by Wolverine Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:05 am

    Gus, thanks so much for taking the time to share this detailed response. It is true, there seems to be a very broad range of Greek webbing that dates from the Cold War period, including original US and British/Commonwealth items, as well as the various Greek versions and developments. It is especially interesting to collect equipment that is not very well documented, but also challenging for the same reason.
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    Post by gus Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:01 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Gus, thanks so much for taking the time to share this detailed response. It is true, there seems to be a very broad range of Greek webbing that dates from the Cold War period, including original US and British/Commonwealth items, as well as the various Greek versions and developments. It is especially interesting to collect equipment that is not very well documented, but also challenging for the same reason.
    Indeed it us very interesting to collect undocumented staff from small countries bc after you enjoy the pleasure to gather informations and that makes the hobby magical..!!!
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    Post by gus Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:05 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Gus, thanks so much for taking the time to share this detailed response. It is true, there seems to be a very broad range of Greek webbing that dates from the Cold War period, including original US and British/Commonwealth items, as well as the various Greek versions and developments. It is especially interesting to collect equipment that is not very well documented, but also challenging for the same reason.
    greek navy guard & shore patrol belts...there were also british P37 khaki & white styles...Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2021Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2022
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2023
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2021
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    Post by gus Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:08 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Gus, thanks so much for taking the time to share this detailed response. It is true, there seems to be a very broad range of Greek webbing that dates from the Cold War period, including original US and British/Commonwealth items, as well as the various Greek versions and developments. It is especially interesting to collect equipment that is not very well documented, but also challenging for the same reason.
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2024Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2024Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2024
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    Post by Wolverine Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:16 pm

    Are there any Greek markings on the holsters? I assume they are locally made?
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    Post by gus Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:44 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Are there any Greek markings on the holsters? I assume they are locally made?

    yes they are greek made ...no markings...
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    Post by gus Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:13 am

    Wolverine wrote:Are there any Greek markings on the holsters? I assume they are locally made?
    greek made holsters from the athens flea market every sunday morning bazaarGreek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2027
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Img_2028
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    Post by gus Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:18 am

    Wolverine wrote:I believe that these are Greek grenade pockets, although I am not sure if they belong with the M1971 set.

    The best clue as to their national original is the peculiar shape of the wire belt hangers, which is typical of Greek kit (such as bayonet frogs). I have seen a dealer passing these off as rare ARVN magazine pouches, but they are nothing of the sort.

    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 312czma

    This Greek jungle-type first aid pouch has the same type of wire hanger as the pouches above. For comparison, I have photographed it next to an original GI jungle first aid pouch. Notice that the Greek version is quite a bit larger.

    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 2z8qmgnGreek Army webbing - Page 4 Kb55vq


    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 2886naf

    No grenade pockets..!!! these are the lower sets of the paracommandos\marines M66 FAL system. there are also special top sets...the jungle 1st aid kit copy is also part of the para M66 system!
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    Post by Wolverine Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:36 pm

    Yes thanks, I understand that now since our discussions last week. Now I am trying to find a pair of the upper M66 magazine pouches.
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    Post by gus Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:15 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Yes thanks, I understand that now since our discussions last week. Now I am trying to find a pair of the upper M66 magazine pouches.

    you sould try Lomax militaria germany or IMA USA...hes got the whole series of GR gear as i can see...describe them and give them a picture of what u looking for
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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:00 pm

    Wolverine wrote:Yes thanks, I understand that now since our discussions last week. Now I am trying to find a pair of the upper M66 magazine pouches.
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 91444010
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 81304810
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 91444010

    the greek modified M44/45 US suspenders in use with greek M66 FAL system

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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:12 pm

    [quote="gus"]
    Wolverine wrote:Yes thanks, I understand that now since our discussions last week. Now I am trying to find a pair of the upper M66 magazine pouches.

    M66 system in use with FN FALOGreek Army webbing - Page 4 90761410
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 92571610
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 81659410
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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:16 pm

    [quote="gus"][quote="gus"][quote="Wolverine"]Yes thanks, I understand that now since our discussions last week. Now I am trying to find a pair of the upper M66 magazine pouches.[/quoteGreek Army webbing - Page 4 80665110
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 90774210
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 90794010
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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:26 pm

    [quote="gus"][quote="gus"][quote="gus"][quote="Wolverine"]Yes thanks, I understand that now since our discussions last week. Now I am trying to find a pair of the upper M66 magazine pouches.Greek Army webbing - Page 4 10150610
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 11804010
    M66 system worn with all army M71 suspenders & M71 butt pack high up on the back
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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:28 pm

    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 91038610
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 91796610
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 12060610
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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:30 pm

    combinations with only one lower left pouch set...
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    Post by gus Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:36 pm

    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 Hj10
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    Post by gus Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:40 am

    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 12060611
    Μ71 web belt with only 2 rows of eylets...
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    Post by gus Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:44 am

    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 P1030610
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 P1030611
    Greek Army webbing - Page 4 P1040310

    sets with M71 belts with Davis qick release buckles

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