PCS MK2 Trousers

I was issuing one of the new lads his kit the other day and when i got him to try his trousers on for size i noticed that the latest ones have brought back the old button fastening on the sides, as i type this now i remember i failed to ask if theres a drawstring in them like the cs95 trousers, so i'll find out and get back to you, but personally id love it if there was, dead handy in the field.

If i recall correctly though the dpm ones pointed backwards, whereas these come forward? I may be wrong.

The specification was revised in January last year to incorporate the "adjustable waistband". There's no drawrstring - the tabs are attached to elastic passed through the waist band channel.

Really interesting George, I will have to track a pair or two down! Do you know if they have revised the PCS smock? Seems they have tweaked most of the kit, just wondered if they had done anything with the smock..

Ive not heard anything about a smock personally, but it would make sense to me for there to be a newer version with the mk2 arm pockets? I'll keep an eye out unless DMC CAS here knows anything? He sounds like a pretty well informed chap if you ask me!

Agree George... Let me know if you ever want sell those PECOC sets you have!!

Haha i'll keep you in mind Lee dont worry

Ha ha ha cheers George!!

Been looking at Current Windproof Smock specification.

There's been a few amendments to the Windproof Smock since its original specification in September 2010 - mostly minor ones relating to labelling and small changes to component sizes, Issue No 6, February 2013 seemed to have the most significant changes- which include:-

Change to a stiffer lining mesh
Pen/compass pocket self-lined
Blanking plate touch and close (Velcro) changed to "picture frame" construction.
Change of position of Union Flag on blanking plate
Change of design of bicep pocket to include fold- over design
3mm shock cord deleted. Replaced by 9mm braided nylon for  Bottom Channel

However Issue No 8, January 2014 states:-

Smock 2
Addition of Smock 2 MTP with change from mesh to main fabric lining and construction of pen pocket
MTP Smock 2 has new Pattern no and NSNs
Change to Smock 2 version for RAF and Navy colours. No change of NSN

General
Broad Arrow added to label  
Cross stitching to touch and close front fastenings
Slide fastener on hand pockets

Looks like they've given up on the mesh lining and fitted zips to hand warmer pockets.

Wow lots of info there thanks! One word mainly comes to mind... Want!

Thanks DMC CAS that's a awesome update! Agree Grorge, I want one as well...I bet it will be quite a while before they start appearing on eBay...

DMC CAS, are the RAF PCS now on issue? Thanks in advance!

I'm not really involved with Clothing Issues, but the new Combat Trousers as described by George were given a date of 08 January 2014 for Issue No 3 (introduction of adjustable waistband), which is the same date as the introduction of Smock 2 MTP - so I would say, yes they are being issued.

Steve

Thanks Steve, very informative, I will have to keep s look out for some of these appearing!!

LeeKitchen1975 wrote:Thanks DMC CAS that's a awesome update! Agree Grorge, I want one as well...I bet it will be quite a while before they start appearing on eBay...

DMC CAS, are the RAF PCS now on issue? Thanks in advance!

Yes, even now, (halfway 2024) I can't find them, maybe I'm overlooking at them, but until now I've only seen the ones with the mesh lining.

anyway, is there someone that can confirm that the Idea behind the mesh lining (Extra ventilation) really had any affect? like in the trouser pockets as well?

I found them only annoying.

MTP 23 is now being issued..

OH boy, MOD goes all the way!
Elastic inserts just above the budd, in the crotch and pleats on the thigh pockets!
are they still having the mesh pocket liner?

I'm sorry to say, I found the first model with the thigh pockets slanted very very cheaply made, something that drops off your bud after 1 round of obstacle course!
Maybe that has to do with the fact that these were made in China?

It's a good thing though that they keep innovating!

Typical British army though. More worried about appearance than functionality.
They add the elasticated gusset and rear that are standard in the likes of Cryes etc but omit the slots for kneepads. Despite trousers with removable hard kneepads being trialled.
The UK Ranger Regiment are issued Crye NSPA uniforms in MTP. Why not just be done with it and issue all combat arms troops with those.

Well, In the Netherlands they know what to do with that, at the moment they have a interim uniform for the interim uniform for the replacement of the Dutch DPM uniform.

search for the NFP and STRONG program...

It seams that this is something more MOD's worldwide are concerned????

Bert353 wrote:

LeeKitchen1975 wrote:Thanks DMC CAS that's a awesome update! Agree Grorge, I want one as well...I bet it will be quite a while before they start appearing on eBay...

DMC CAS, are the RAF PCS now on issue? Thanks in advance!

Yes, even now, (halfway 2024) I can't find them, maybe I'm overlooking at them, but until now I've only seen the ones with the mesh lining.

anyway, is there someone that can confirm that the Idea behind the mesh lining (Extra ventilation) really had any affect? like in the trouser pockets as well?

I found them only annoying.

I believe the rationale behind the mesh lining was for improved ventilation or sweat wicking, I imagine because at the time of it coming out we were running around in sandy places, which for that theatre makes sense, but it was prone to breaking easily and got snagged constantly on the Velcro storm flap for the zip. When they instigated the heavier duty mesh it still broke but not as easily however still had the issue with constantly getting snagged on the Velcro, and as we'd stopped playing in hot places by that time and went back to temperate and cold weather climates, the general consensus was that the mesh lining wasn't as warm or good for temperate and cold climates, hence returning to the fabric lined as was more windproof and didn't require exchanging every five minutes for the zipped chest pockets being made unserviceable.

Trousers stopped having the mesh around the time the smock when from the thin flimsy mesh to the thicker mesh, and for reasons I don't fully comprehend they stopped doing temperate combats and have just gone with warm weather combats for all climates, which aren't as robust. Not been issued any PCS 23 yet although not keen on it at all, and unless purely for exercise use I imagine the constant use and barracks policy of ironing combats will knacker the elasticated elements in no time. Personally would prefer to be issued with the better elements of other countries uniforms or provided with a set budget of funds to purchase whatever is required in the colours permitted that best suits whatever I'm getting upto in where-ever I'm doing it and only have to rely on stores for things like respirators, body armour and the such.

I never knew that they had replaced the initial mesh with sturdier one?, and I only remarked the (again) fully lined versions last week. as far as I know, you can't find them yet at the different sites like e-bay and so?

As far as the lack of temperate versions, I noticed that a lot of different countries have the same policy these days, I think it has to do with finances, having one version of their field gear, BDU or battle dress or whatever you wanna call it, in the thinner version, and issue the soldier a extra set of light long sleeved underwear (for fall and early winter) might be less expensive than also issue them a temperate version of the same?

I think it's in the same line of thoughts as why they went with multicam instead of DPM and Desert DPM. (that's one uniform instead of two different ones) imagine having from each a temperate version and a hot weather one...

Bert353 wrote:I never knew that they had replaced the initial mesh with sturdier one?, and I only remarked the (again) fully lined versions last week. as far as I know, you can't find them yet at the different sites like e-bay and so?

As far as the lack of temperate versions, I noticed that a lot of different countries have the same policy these days, I think it has to do with finances, having one version of their field gear, BDU or battle dress or whatever you wanna call it, in the thinner version, and issue the soldier a extra set of light long sleeved underwear (for fall and early winter) might be less expensive than also issue them a temperate version of the same?

I think it's in the same line of thoughts as why they went with multicam instead of DPM and Desert DPM. (that's one uniform instead of two different ones) imagine having from each a temperate version and a hot weather one...

Yep, the initial mesh which was easily torn (rather a problem when it was the main part of a pocket) was replaced with a mesh that was similar to the mesh used on the mesh bags in PLCE medical packs/rucksacks/bergens.

On an expenditure front I could get the just having one hot weather climate uniform for all occasions used in conjunction with assorted climate appropriate garments, however other nations do have a wider array of sizing's to choose from for all aspects (certainly USA does) whereas we still have a sort of one size fits none in regards cold weather gear. For the long johns we get the ones that would fit my waist I can't get on because they're too small/tight everywhere else, but then if I get a set that I can fit into the waists too large, as for the thermal top I find they come up too short in the body.

I generally stick to picking up the odd set of temperate when I see it and the price is reasonable for UK and EU use in and out of camp and sport the windproof trousers more often than not when in the field / on ranges or if the weather particularly uncivilized.

The one piece of kit they didn't transfer into MTP that I would love though is the old "Falklands" Parka.

Yep,I never was issued a pair of long johns that fitted well.
I don't know of which model's them LJ manufacturers take their sizes? probably Martians?

yes, the old windproofs... in the day I was issued a very nicely made one of double layer of cotton,heavy as what, I only used that one on a couple of occasions, like our endex. in the Ardennes, when it was -20C in daytime, sure that felt good then.

The MTP (with straight leg pockets) I dislike, I find that they construct them in a stupid way, they have these covers with hook and loop that close of the pockets, but they sew these covers in such a way that you can't get your hand into those pockets anymore.???

and about that Falklands smock, you mean the material that smock is made from? (100% cotton)
Because the layout is almost equal to all other smocks?

I like the very first version of MTP trousers when they were still in a CS95 cut with the straight leg pockets, but without the button cover. The only downside to those is they only came in tropical climate fabric.

With the Falklands smock I meant the parka that came with the quilted hood, detachable quilted liner and extra large waist pockets, and before the "84" fabric came into use the fabric being bomb proof. The Korean Parka or even the local manufactured BATUS Parka in MTP would also be a nicey nicey but not having as neither of them have a detachable liner are rather limited on where you could wear it.