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5 posters

    Some Belgian Stuff

    TennoHeikaNate
    TennoHeikaNate
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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:27 am

    You know the drill, strap in, time for some Belgian stuff!
    As usual, this is largely Cold War era stuff with a touch of older and later.
    Like with the Dutch stuff, this stuff is out of my familiar zone, so I do have some questions on a few things
    and if you note anything wrong please call me out on it!



    Starting with a mystery bayonet that I believe is Belgian in origin, but not in usage.
    It seems to be an FN M24 Mauser bayonet, but made for export, as it has absolutely zero markings anywhere on the blade, handle,
    hilt, crossguard, scabbard, or frog. Searching the M24 Mauser shows it was exported to A LOT of countries, so where this one ended
    up I have no idea.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia12
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia13


    An FN-D/BAR magazine belt harness, 5-pocket variant. No markings that I can find.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia14


    An Mle 51 helmet, with an '85 dated Air Force liner. I also later found a net for it.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia16
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia17
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    Some M56 "Congo" brushstroke camouflage trousers, made in 1956 by RAKA.
    Need to take some new, better pics of these.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia18


    I later found a '56 BAWI smock to go with it, and then later a hood to complete it. Once again, forgot to take detailed
    individual shots of jacket, trousers, and hood when I got them.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia19
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia20
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia21


    The hood displayed on the Mle 51. I didn't have the net or any spare inner tubes at the time to make a more period correct looking setup.
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    A set of '58 dated M56 Jigsaw smock and trousers, the smock was Begetex and the trousers AMS.
    I also later found a hood for the smock.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia25
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    Jigsaw hood on the Mle 51.
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    A '73 dated Seyntex made Jigsaw smock, which IIRC is the 2nd version smock? It's made of denim, has snap closures except for
    the cuffs and epaulets, and is a half-zip pullover type.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia47
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    Now, here's where things start to get hazy for me; the standard OD uniforms.
    First up is what I believe to be an M64 jacket, dated 1990, styled similarly to the Dutch and Danish M58's. It features a rollaway hood
    but I don't recall if these jackets had a liner that went with them or not.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia38
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    What I *believe* to be M64 trousers, dated 1987. These are pretty substantial with two leg cargo pockets, a field
    dressing pocket, and velcro sealed slits to open the ankle cuffs for boots.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia41


    What I'm told is called an "M88" jacket, this one is not dated. It differs from the "M64" by being made of a much smoother,
    shinier material, has nearly straight but still tilted upper chest pockets, is quite long reaching about mid-thigh area, has the cuff adjustments
    much higher around the wrist, and has no elbow reinforcements. All around it seems more like a barracks jacket than a field jacket.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia42


    A pair of 1977 dated trousers, which initially I was told were M88 trousers but the date and designation do not coincide.
    These are far less substantial with only a single leg cargo pocket, no field dressing pocket, cinches for the ankle cuffs, and very shallow, nearly
    useless hand pockets. These strike me as more of a lightweight, summer version of the M64 trousers but overall I'm stumped on all these.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia43


    And lastly a plain OD shirt, dated 1996. Seems quite late but I suppose some Belgian units were still wearing all OD by then.
    I was told this was a field shirt but I don't know for sure, I also don't know what time period these were issued from.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia44
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    A 1958 dated ANP-M51 gas mask with a 1976 dated FE55 filter and khaki canvas bag. The mask came in a plastic bag
    marked 98 BN LOG with 1984 written on a sticker but that was all that was left of this kit.
    ABLcollector50s60s' thread has some great pics and info on the contents of what would be in this kit, as well as the page for this
    mask on the gasmaskandrespirator.fandom.com wiki.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia33
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    A French Signal Corps marked TL-122D angle head flashlight I got from Hessian Antique who said they got a bunch of these
    from Belgian army stocks.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia49
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia48


    Big thanks once again to Andrew/Wolverine for helping with some of the following M1971 webbing items.
    First is one of two M71 buttpacks I found, this one has the earlier turn-lock closures, while the second one which I neglected
    to take an individual shot of has the later black snaps.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia51
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    M71 canteen/cup set, dated 1976.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia52
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    M71 e-tool carrier. I forgot to ask, but how does the M-1910 hanger on this thing work? I've tried feeding it through the grommets
    the other way around but it didn't fit. It's probably pretty simple but it has had me stumped so far.  Some Belgian Stuff 1f605

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia55
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    M71 H-suspenders. I also have the belt, but forgot to take a pic.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia56


    M71 Rucksack. I have a French Mle 55 canvas ruck but I also plan on getting one of the Belgian canvas copies someday.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia57
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    x4 M71 Vigneron magazine pouches. These were all missing the ALICE clips so I bought some US surplus ones for them.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia59


    And all the M1971 stuff together, with snap closure buttpack, the belt, flashlight, and M51 mask, although I forgot to take some
    pics with the rucksack.
    Other than the e-tool itself and an FAL bayonet, am I missing anything a typical Belgian rifleman from the 70's-80's would carry with this?

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    A 2002 dated Jigsaw cover for the Belgian M95 (Schuberth B826) helmet.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia61


    And last for now, a set of (M1990?) Jigsaw. Old pic once again, with no detailed shots. The trousers are dated 1999 IIRC.
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia62


    Enjoy!
    -Nate

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    matchstick
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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by matchstick Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:15 pm

    Nice pieces, the period photo's showing it, and variations there-of, in use are awesome.

    I've a few photo albums of assorted Belgian troops mostly on assorted parades that I salvaged from a skip in Grobbendonk 1 from the 50's and the rest I'd say probably mid 80's to mid 90's. My collection of Belgian kit is mostly variants of the para smocks.

    Some Belgian Stuff Knife10

    Is the knife this chaps holding to his muckers throat an issued item as I have a similar, if not identical looking one in my collection of pointy objects at home that I was given when I was based in Germany.

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    TennoHeikaNate
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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:11 am

    Thanks matchstick, I'd love to see your smock collection sometime!
    As for that knife, I have no idea. I also have a small collection of mostly bayonets, but my knowledge of Benelux kit in general is quite lacking, as far as I was aware only the FAL bayonet was issued but I really have no clue, hopefully someone else who specializes in that area might know, as I would also like to know what model that is.

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    Post by matchstick Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:00 am

    I'll dig them out next time I'm home and get some pictures taken.

    The guy who gave me the knife said he got it off a German on Exercise, I only wound up with as I was found out as being a collector of things (caught rummaging through the garrison skips) and he was getting out and didn't think he'd get away with flying back to the UK with it.

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    Antarmike
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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by Antarmike Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:24 am

    TennoHeikaNate wrote:Thanks matchstick, I'd love to see your smock collection sometime!
    As for that knife, I have no idea. I also have a small collection of mostly bayonets, but my knowledge of Benelux kit in general is quite lacking, as far as I was aware only the FAL bayonet was issued but I really have no clue, hopefully someone else who specializes in that area might know, as I would also like to know what model that is.


    I have heard that some Belgians, post war, carried Fairburn Sykes fighting knives.

    One of your photos could possibly show a trooper (centre of photo with holstered GP-35 HiPower) wearing an F-S knife.   The photo is not that clear.

    Some Belgian Stuff F-S

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    CollectinSteve
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    Post by CollectinSteve Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:49 pm

    Antarmike wrote:I have heard that some Belgians, post war, carried Fairburn Sykes fighting knives.

    From what I remember it was a private purchase item used for formal occasions. I had a brand new one years ago that I bought from a well connected source.

    Steve

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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by matchstick Sun Jan 22, 2023 3:14 pm

    Just got a new laptop as the old one has finally piled in however it won't bring up the thingy at the bottom of the reply box or in create new topic/thread bit to allow me to insert pictures as I finally got round to digging out and photographing my assorted Belgian para smocks.

    I shall investigate figuring out this dilemma tomorrow when I'm slightly less tired and better able to wrap my head around this technology stuff.
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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by M55q Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:38 pm

    Nice bits and pieces! Love the photos were jiggsaw, moon-and-balls, brushstroke and OD-green trousers and smocks are all mismatched.

    I've collected Belgian for a while. Should really dig it all out one day.
    For now my own smock (brush-stroke) and trousers (moon-and-balls):
    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia10

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia11

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia12

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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:22 pm

    Hey guys, been trying to add to my Belgium collection some more, so here's a few more pieces of Jigsaw I came across!

    First up, a basic M90 jacket with the tricolor flag patch. From my understanding, earlier production jackets had flags, while sometime by 1999/early 00's I've seen photos of KFOR deployed personnel who had already switched to the "BELGIUM" tapes on the left chest which seems to have since become the standard.
    The tag is washed out unfortunately so no maker or date.

    Some Belgian Stuff Belgia82
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    Next, a rather unusual pair of trousers that I've never seen before. These are made of a very thin canvas material, so thin they actually kept slipping out of the clamps of my hanger, and have a whopping eight pockets on them, including:
    -2x slash hand pockets
    -2x thigh single button bellowing cargo pockets
    -2x calf single button cargo pockets, which are the same cut and also bellow but are ever so slightly smaller in size
    -And two internal single button rear pockets
    They're dated 1967 and have a full button fly and waist with a weird unsewn cover flap that seems to have been intentionally left that way for ventilation, and have belt loops and no suspender buttons unlike the typical thick, heavy canvas jigsaw trousers you usually find from the 60's.
    Initially when I bought them I thought these were a field modded thing, but if you scroll up to the reference photos I posted before, you'll see quite a few of them being worn over the years, including at least one in the Congo and others mixed with brushstroke smocks. I'm a bit embarrassed that I never even noticed them in all the photos I've had and posted.
    My best guess is that these were a hot weather variant trouser, but if anybody has any additional info or reference pics I'd love to see more. Also, does anybody know if there was a matching lightweight jacket or shirt that would have gone with these?

    Some Belgian Stuff Img_0213
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    And last for now, another mysterious item I've never seen before; a lightweight jacket, featuring a very similar thin but thickly woven material, marked as a ZMFN Marines issue item, dated 1995.
    The tag states it's 100% cotton, but it has some sort of synthetic interior shoulder rain cape sewn inside.
    There's an "AERTS" woven fabric name tag sewn above the nomenclature tag, and a name "DRIES" written in blue inside the collar as well.
    It features a full zip front and snap flap, as well as four single snap pockets and snap epaulets. The cuffs are non-adjustable, but look like they may have had elastic at one point.
    The hood is permanently sewn, and has a drawcord cinch.
    I've seen examples of similar looking jackets in the brushstroke pattern, but they all appeared to be either tailor made or weren't from Belgium. This is the first example I've seen that is both jigsaw pattern and with an issue nomenclature tag sewn in.
    Again my best guess is that this is a late model jacket/smock issued to Marines in hot climates for UN missions, but I have no photos of these being worn so I can't say for certain.
    And once again, if anybody has any additional info, their own examples, photos of them being worn, or know if there were also matching trousers to this jacket, I'd love to know more about it!

    Some Belgian Stuff Img_0215
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    That's all for now, enjoy!
    -Nate
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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by CollectinSteve Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:13 pm

    Some great stuff! I've not seen the naval version with the waterproofing on the inside. Nice. The smock probably went with smooth cotton trousers that Michielsens also produced in 1995 as part of the transition to ripstop uniforms in 1995. Pretty much the same design that became standard in 1997, but in ripstop. I might have a spare somewhere, but if I do you might not like it as it's super small.

    Random comments:

    1. The strange trousers you have are Para/CDO that were made starting in 1967 and made until at least 1973 (those are the earliest and latest examples I've seen). They came in thin poplin (the same as the hot climate uniform) and far rarer cotton twill that is similar in weight to the smock.

    Some Belgian Stuff 6pouch10
    Some Belgian Stuff S-l16021

    2. There is a very, very rare example of the 8 pocket CDO trousers in Brushstroke using a poplin type cloth. I've only seen one and, fortunately, that's because I have it in my collection Wink By this point Brushstroke was on its last legs as Jigsaw was standard issue for Para/CDO.

    3. The massive run of uniforms in 1956 came in both M&B and Brush. My guess is they were running through leftover M&B cloth. The jackets came in two variants; snaps and buttons. There is also a very rare type (Brushstroke only, I think) with the same crotch flap clips that were used on the experimental Leibermuster jacket.

    4. 1958 Jigsaw jacket production also came in snaps and buttons variants.

    I don't know why they kept doing both button and snap variants through the Jigsaw production, though my guess is some factory said "this is our price with X, it will cost you more for us to switch to Y". Does make hoods a little more difficult to match!

    Steve

    Steve

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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

    Post by TennoHeikaNate Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:56 am

    Thanks once again Steve! Great pic of the 8 pocket trousers there with the later type smock!
    My trousers certainly are the common thin cotton twill material type, they're the first I ever recall coming across in the US but I'll certainly keep my eye out for more, especially the poplin version!
    If you do happen to have some of the 1995 type trousers, I'm certainly interested no matter the size. That 1995 non-ripstop uniform is also on my list of jigsaw to acquire, but online prices for them have been absurd lately, and the shirts all too frequently have unfortunately had all their insignia removed.
    The other pattern I'm delving into is the Belgian Air Force flecktarn series. I'm about 10 years late getting into that game now that the bulk of that surplus has dried up, but there's still some floating around!
    -Nate

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    Some Belgian Stuff Empty Re: Some Belgian Stuff

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