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nkomo

AndrewA74

DS9ACU

Camo_fiend

Kan

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ABU answers

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°1

ABU answers

Post by Kan Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:00 pm

Hey y'all, as some of you might already know, I am a active duty member of the US Airforce. With this comes knowledge of the uniform and such and so on, regarding everything from the old school BDUs, Dress blues, to the new ABUs.

So I offer my knowledge to my fellow geardos and am more than willing to answer any questions you have, provided it isnt any kinda classified info.

Camo_fiend: MODERATOR; Name : Ben
Location : Lefthand side of the Atlantic
Registration date : 2009-07-22
Number of posts : 2705

Post n°2

Re: ABU answers

Post by Camo_fiend Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:02 am

How effective is the ABU pattern in a tactical environment? I honestly haven't seen very many photos of it being used, so I'm curious.

Cheers.

_________________
Interested in any European digital camo.

See my collection online: http://benscamo.webs.com/

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°3

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:13 am

It depends on what you mean when you say tactical enviroment, that could mean an urban, desert, woodland, or even flightline enviroments.

When it comes to woodland I can personally say its just as well as the ACU, read not worth a cuss, the profile might be a tad more broken up due to the tiger stripe-ish pattern, but not enough to be really worth mentioning. And it still makes the person stand out anyway.

When it comes to the desert, I have not personally seen it in a desert enviroment yet, but I personally think that it speaks volumes on how well it doesn't work when a majority of the Airforce Special Operations Airman wear the ACU instead of the ABU. The ABU doesn't really have the features needed in an actual combat uniform neither. Though I have reports from those who have deployed to the sandbox recently that it again works bout like the ACU.

Urban, I can say it has, again, the same effect as ACU, breaking up the profile of someone but thats about as far as it goes.

The niche for the pattern is the flight line apparently, I have head NCOs talking about how it was 'designed' to make airmen harder targets on a flightline. One story I have discussed was one that had aircrew look down onto the flight line and were able to pinpoint the airman in BDUs a heckofa late easier than those wearing the ABU. Though I personally think this is just dumb luck, as none of the press reports of the ABU, nor any of the service info bits, have stated this, and most airman ditch the blouse as soon as they start working so it wouldn't even used for that that much.

I hope that answered your question.

PS:

The only time I have seen the pattern work for concealment, was when there were alot of people wearing them in a tight group, can't really tell were one begins and the other ends, and that sight was last seen in basic training.

Last edited by Kan on Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total

DS9ACU: Officer Candidate; Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-15
Number of posts : 530

Post n°4

Re: ABU answers

Post by DS9ACU Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:16 am

Do a lot of people speak out against the pattern like the army and the ACU? Also are there any rumors of a new pattern to replace ABU, like multicam replacing ABU.

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°5

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:23 am

To be honest, as a majority of the airman will not see true combat unless things start going really wrong, many don't really speak out against the pattern. Those that would have a genuine need to do so, are more often than not in a field that is authorized multicam and such for combat ops. The biggest gripe from dang near everyone is the weight of the uniform and it's lack of modern improvements.

When it does come up though, most people speak against the color pallet, some thinking the pattern might be worth a cuss if the colors were changed to reflect the area they are used in.

And there have not been any rumors concerning multicam for the main stream airforce. (However much I would like it to happen.)

Personally, I gripe about the pattern and the uniform in general when ever I get a chance, as I have had the opportunity to wear and use the other services uniforms. And I still opt to wear BDUs when I get the chance.

AndrewA74: MODERATOR; Name : Andrew
Age : 29
Location : Mocksville, NC
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Number of posts : 930

Post n°6

Re: ABU answers

Post by AndrewA74 Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:23 am

Hey,
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your service to the USAF. I have a question for you:

How available is ABU to the soldiers? Is it currently being surplused? (There is talk of Civil Air Patrol switching to ABUs sometime soon and was wondering the feasibility of getting ABU's to civvies like us)

I've also heard of a service wide multicam for the USAF. But talk is cheap.

The SP's, do they wear ACU helmet covers? Or do they wear a special ABU cover? I know they wear a combination of black and ABU gear correct? Thanks.
Andrew

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°7

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:03 pm

Thank you, and as a friendly fyi, members in the Airforce are known as Airman, not soldiers.

I know that at my base that ABU is readily available,, and a majority of the AF is now in the ABU, save for the hold outs or the very grew who can't find them. And now that the ABU is issued to all deploying airman it is even more available. And as for the surplus, unless your near an AF base I wouldn't get your hopes up until after the 2011 phase in date, which is when everyone who is leabing the service should have at least one set of ABUs. (enjoy the BDUs while you can man, the ABUs are not that great IMO, to hot)

Shooting down the rumor, no talk of it in the official channels that I can access.

And regarding the Security Forces, I know at my base they have recently started getting ABU helmet covers. Though the ACU pattern is still used when the ABU cover is not available.

Also the SF wears many different combination of gear, those at my base wear ACU H-Harnesses with ACU pouches for a majority of their jobs, while I have seen some wearing a black duty belt with needed pouches and stuff, and even up to full plate carriers in the ACU pattern. I have some buddies from basic that are SF and I have asked them about there stuff, one of my buddies is still using DCU FLC with 'some' ACU pattern pouches with a majority DCU. It all depends on what the unit can and is willing to spend, the lenience of the commander of unit/group/wing.

Next time I see anymore of my SF buddies I'll drop some gear questions for you and update in this topic.

AndrewA74: MODERATOR; Name : Andrew
Age : 29
Location : Mocksville, NC
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Number of posts : 930

Post n°8

Re: ABU answers

Post by AndrewA74 Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:11 pm

Kan wrote:Thank you, and as a friendly fyi, members in the Airforce are known as Airman, not soldiers.

I know that at my base that ABU is readily available,, and a majority of the AF is now in the ABU, save for the hold outs or the very grew who can't find them. And now that the ABU is issued to all deploying airman it is even more available. And as for the surplus, unless your near an AF base I wouldn't get your hopes up until after the 2011 phase in date, which is when everyone who is leabing the service should have at least one set of ABUs. (enjoy the BDUs while you can man, the ABUs are not that great IMO, to hot)

Shooting down the rumor, no talk of it in the official channels that I can access.

And regarding the Security Forces, I know at my base they have recently started getting ABU helmet covers. Though the ACU pattern is still used when the ABU cover is not available.

Also the SF wears many different combination of gear, those at my base wear ACU H-Harnesses with ACU pouches for a majority of their jobs, while I have seen some wearing a black duty belt with needed pouches and stuff, and even up to full plate carriers in the ACU pattern. I have some buddies from basic that are SF and I have asked them about there stuff, one of my buddies is still using DCU FLC with 'some' ACU pattern pouches with a majority DCU. It all depends on what the unit can and is willing to spend, the lenience of the commander of unit/group/wing.

Next time I see anymore of my SF buddies I'll drop some gear questions for you and update in this topic.

Thanks for the reply. I should have remembered that Embarassed

Embarassed

. I'm near Pope / Bragg but suprisingly, I've only run across ABU ranks. Any idea if they're gonna restore squadron patches to the ABU's like they had with the BDU's?
Andrew

Camo_fiend: MODERATOR; Name : Ben
Location : Lefthand side of the Atlantic
Registration date : 2009-07-22
Number of posts : 2705

Post n°9

Re: ABU answers

Post by Camo_fiend Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:31 pm

Kan wrote:It depends on what you mean when you say tactical enviroment, that could mean an urban, desert, woodland, or even flightline enviroments.

I was actually hoping you'd discuss all of the above; which you did. Thanks for the info!

_________________
Interested in any European digital camo.

See my collection online: http://benscamo.webs.com/

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°10

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:07 pm

AndrewA74 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I should have remembered that . I'm near Pope / Bragg but suprisingly, I've only run across ABU ranks. Any idea if they're gonna restore squadron patches to the ABU's like they had with the BDU's?
Andrew

While the AF times article may have made it sound that way, the current word is no, the af time article was simply the voiced opinions of a small amount of the AF as a whole.

The purpose for the loss of patches is presumably to lower costs of maintaining the uniform, same as the perm-press feature. Honestly, if we had only one patch, I would want it to be of the flag on one of the shoulders.

The reason for your lack of finding may be because that Pope is supposedly closing down, and more airman are gaining PCS orders to other bases, though I do know that the surplus shop in St Pauls, a little bit out of Lumberton and maybe 40 to 50 mins out from Fayetville, has had ABUs found in it on a few occasions.

And no worries Camo_fiend

nkomo: ADMIN; Name : Arch
Location : Kentucky, USA
Registration date : 2009-02-13
Number of posts : 3324

Post n°11

Re: ABU answers

Post by nkomo Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:20 pm

You mentioned that USAF Spec Ops types are wearing ACU. Could this be due to the fact they work very closely with the US Army SF types in combat environments and don't want to stand out by wearing their own service's camouflage? I know that Navy sailors also wear ACU's while attached to US Army units in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe the same principle is at play with the USAF as it is with the US Navy?

_________________
Always looking for Central American militaria 1965 to 1991. Especially items relating to Coronel Velasquez El Salvador Armed Forces

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°12

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:33 pm

Thats plausible as well, however when looking at a soldier and a airman wearing their uniforms from even a small distance away they tend to look the same, and when you add the IBA and other equipment, they can be almost indistinguishable. I have heard of airman being issued the ACUs when they are deployed with the army as well.

And in recently pictures I have seen TACPs and JTACs in multicam.

And also the AFSOC guys who do wear ACU rather than the ABU becuase it simply isn't a effective battle uniform, wear-as the ACU was made to work with current body armor systems.

nkomo: ADMIN; Name : Arch
Location : Kentucky, USA
Registration date : 2009-02-13
Number of posts : 3324

Post n°13

Re: ABU answers

Post by nkomo Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:46 pm

Kan wrote:Thats plausible as well, however when looking at a soldier and a airman wearing their uniforms from even a small distance away they tend to look the same, and when you add the IBA and other equipment, they can be almost indistinguishable. I have heard of airman being issued the ACUs when they are deployed with the army as well.

And in recently pictures I have seen TACPs and JTACs in multicam.

And also the AFSOC guys who do wear ACU rather than the ABU becuase it simply isn't a effective battle uniform, wear-as the ACU was made to work with current body armor systems.

Makes sense. How often do you see Airmen wearing tan ACH's?

_________________
Always looking for Central American militaria 1965 to 1991. Especially items relating to Coronel Velasquez El Salvador Armed Forces

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°14

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:46 pm

Ever since basic the norm helmet is the old school PASGT, normally its only security forces, and spec ops that wear ACHs. I have seen pics of PJs, JTACs and TACPs wearing tan colored ACHs, and I know for a fact that the SF on my base is issued ACHs or MICHs.

navax: Junior Sergeant; Name : Jake
Age : 31
Location : florida
Registration date : 2010-04-13
Number of posts : 154

Post n°15

Re: ABU answers

Post by navax Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:53 pm

Hey Kan, first thanks for serving the United States. I see that everyone is mentioning BDU's what about DCU's are airmen wearing them like sailors are? Jake

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°16

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:58 pm

Thank you Navax, and DCUs are no longer authorized for main stream Airman anymore, sadly. If they were I'd doubt anyone would be wearing the ABU in the sandbox, opting for the lighter weight uniform.
The only airman I have seen wearing it in past memory have been of pics of PJs, though they have taken to multicam as of late.

And while the navy isn't my personal forte, I believe most are going to be issued a variant of the marpat with the ship embossed into the pattern, much like their NWUs. But don't quote or hold me to that, just something I heard in passing.

navax: Junior Sergeant; Name : Jake
Age : 31
Location : florida
Registration date : 2010-04-13
Number of posts : 154

Post n°17

Re: ABU answers

Post by navax Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:08 am

Kan wrote:Thank you Navax, and DCUs are no longer authorized for main stream Airman anymore, sadly. If they were I'd doubt anyone would be wearing the ABU in the sandbox, opting for the lighter weight uniform.
The only airman I have seen wearing it in past memory have been of pics of PJs, though they have taken to multicam as of late.

And while the navy isn't my personal forte, I believe most are going to be issued a variant of the marpat with the ship embossed into the pattern, much like their NWUs. But don't quote or hold me to that, just something I heard in passing.

Well, I'm joining the navy and what i know as a future sailor and a collector is that NWU I aka the blue one is the only authorized shipboard uniform for working. NWU II is only authorized for the seals and maybe the swcc's. The final NWU the woodland one is only used for the jungle. But the air force not using the dcu? That's interesting. Thanks for the answer. A new question though how do you feel about the abu and which version do you own? Jake

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°18

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:21 am

Ah, well it my turn to thank you, even if you don't join, thank you for having the fortitude to even consider joining up in a time of war.

And I have seen some sailors wearing NWUs here at my base, reservists mostly.

First a disclaimer (The following views are not the reflection of the Air Force's, only a personal opinion.)

Personally, I hate the ABUs, IMO they weight to much, don't breath and they pretty much lack any kind of modern uniform standards such as the shoulder pockets and slanted chest pockets. The pen pockets are useful, but I often find myself getting caught by the pens stuck in them. I am a munitions troop and as such I end up having lots of stains, such as rust, grease, sweat, and the stains are almost impossible to get out. Out of all the 3 sets I came out of basic with only 1 is still 'kinda' considered serviceable, with almost all of my pants having cuts in the cargo pockets or in other areas.

Bottom line, I HATE the things, but I can't do nothing about it other than wear my BDUs I obtained via an airman getting out and hoping someone with rank that doesn't sit in an air-conditioned office all day decides enough is enough.

And I was issued the 2nd version, the one without the inside map pockets (which to this day don't make sense to me).

navax: Junior Sergeant; Name : Jake
Age : 31
Location : florida
Registration date : 2010-04-13
Number of posts : 154

Post n°19

Re: ABU answers

Post by navax Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:40 am

Kan wrote:Ah, well it my turn to thank you, even if you don't join, thank you for having the fortitude to even consider joining up in a time of war.

And I have seen some sailors wearing NWUs here at my base, reservists mostly.

First a disclaimer (The following views are not the reflection of the Air Force's, only a personal opinion.)

Personally, I hate the ABUs, IMO they weight to much, don't breath and they pretty much lack any kind of modern uniform standards such as the shoulder pockets and slanted chest pockets. The pen pockets are useful, but I often find myself getting caught by the pens stuck in them. I am a munitions troop and as such I end up having lots of stains, such as rust, grease, sweat, and the stains are almost impossible to get out. Out of all the 3 sets I came out of basic with only 1 is still 'kinda' considered serviceable, with almost all of my pants having cuts in the cargo pockets or in other areas.

Bottom line, I HATE the things, but I can't do nothing about it other than wear my BDUs I obtained via an airman getting out and hoping someone with rank that doesn't sit in an air-conditioned office all day decides enough is enough.

And I was issued the 2nd version, the one without the inside map pockets (which to this day don't make sense to me).

Thank you for that and I'm glad you said that about the abu because i own a jacket from the 1st style and it is heavy. Also I noticed you mentioned the AF times article about the lack of patches. I read the article and what do you think about the lack of patches. I feel like it doesnt appeal well.

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°20

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:00 am

Honestly, while I think the BDU looks sharper with the patches on it, I doubt the ABU will if it has patches on it. The ABU was designed as a minimal maintenance uniform and patches would take away from that. Also squadrons would have to redesign their patches to match with the new ABU colors, something that can end up taking quite a bit of time and money. I think the thought behind patches is a great one though, showing pride in your squadron and job, but there are other ways to do it. Speaking of other ways to do it, my commander is currently working on getting my squadron authorization to wear a custom Sand tshirt with the logo on front, and a design on back.

However, if they were to redesign the uniform to include velcro or some other easy attach/detach system that is would be a great idea. The one patch I would kill to wear, would be the flag, just to show some patriotism.

I know of some ways that airman show what their jobs are, its not with-in regs, but **** folks (my career field) wear a 'piss pot' pin, our job's 'logo' on the back of our patrol caps.

And I just noticed I went a bit off track, as I have said before, more airman are more worried about how bloody hot the things get than there are airman who gripe about the patches.

navax: Junior Sergeant; Name : Jake
Age : 31
Location : florida
Registration date : 2010-04-13
Number of posts : 154

Post n°21

Re: ABU answers

Post by navax Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:07 am

Isnt the third one cooler or is it still way too hot? Jake

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°22

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:10 am

I don't think I have seen the 3rd version yet, unless you mean the all cotton for fire fighters and those working with electronics. If its the all cotton rip-stop one, then I have heard it is cooler, but it isn't authorized for the rest of the AF.

navax: Junior Sergeant; Name : Jake
Age : 31
Location : florida
Registration date : 2010-04-13
Number of posts : 154

Post n°23

Re: ABU answers

Post by navax Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:38 am

Kan wrote:I don't think I have seen the 3rd version yet, unless you mean the all cotton for fire fighters and those working with electronics. If its the all cotton rip-stop one, then I have heard it is cooler, but it isn't authorized for the rest of the AF.

Wow the AF just hasn't made the right decisions with this uniform have they? I mean I've seen people say that the original tiger stripe wasn't the most effective pattern and making it digital was impractical. Then with the weight and design it seems like this wasn't a great idea. Jake

Kan: Junior Sergeant; Name : Justin Inman
Age : 34
Location : Aviano AB, Italy
Registration date : 2010-06-25
Number of posts : 86

Post n°24

Re: ABU answers

Post by Kan Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:40 am

I think you guys might appreciate this link, http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger.htm#9

The development of the ABU.

navax: Junior Sergeant; Name : Jake
Age : 31
Location : florida
Registration date : 2010-04-13
Number of posts : 154

Post n°25

Re: ABU answers

Post by navax Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:49 am

Kan wrote:I think you guys might appreciate this link, http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger.htm#9

The development of the ABU.

Great links! Thanks for the information. Jake

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Re: ABU answers

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